Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 51
09-19-2011, 01:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heretic
Scramble Sensors Proposal
1. Reduce maximum duration by about a third.
2. Max Targets to 5 (there has to be a cap on this, but we are willing to consider a higher cap than 5)
3. When under a confuse effect, if you have no target any power that is Self-or-Friend will always target Self. Meaning, instead of doing the camera shuffle you would only have to deselect then hit Science Team to clear the effect.
Scramble Sensors Proposal
1. While I can appreciate PvP's concern with the duration of SS, I would vote against reducing the duration too much. I mostly play PvE and I know when I was leveling my Sci, when I got attacked by multiple ships (say a fleet of 5-8 ships in a Deep Space Encounter), I would use SS as a sort of "time out" - this let me heal my ship and take a break from constant fire. Too short of a break = not enough of a healing reprieve. The fact that the enemy started shooting at themselves for a little added DPS on my behalf was welcomed too.

Maybe make it reduced by half, but allow a slight increase based on skill, so that at max skill we get 2/3 exising times.

Perhaps instead of reducing the duration, I would suggest that SS grant a Scramble Immunity to reduce chaining. I would think 50-100% protection, so a 20s SS grants 10-20s SI. What would be really neat, if the tech allowed, grant the SI only if the SS was cleansed by Science Team, and have the SI duration based on the level/skill of the ST... Bascially my Science crew is concentrating on keeping the sensors aligned for a time.

2. I vote for a high cap. As others have mentioned this would reduce the Spam Defense in PvP, and keep viability for that PvE instance I described above.

3. This is a must: A reliable cleansing should be available.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heretic
Tactical Team Proposal
1. Split off the shield redistribution as a new, separate Boff power starting at Ensign
2. Keep recharge time the same.
3. Reduce duration of all effects from current 10s to 5s.
4. Add an additional effect that is tactical themed, not damage, and is either instant or 5s in duration.

For the Tactical Team proposal, we would welcome suggestions for an appropriate new effect for #4.
Tactical Team Proposal
1. I'm all for a new Ens level Tactical skill. A cannon/turret build (ie no beams/torps) has a thin selection.
2. Uhm, ok. Sure.
3. If you take away the shield distro, I shouldn't think you need to reduce the other effects.
4. I like the idea that Tac Team would grant a Defense and/or Accuracy buff for 5-10s that varies by level/skill. Perhaps even a small CrtH/CrtD buff during that time as well?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 52
09-19-2011, 01:56 PM
For Scramble Sensors:

We've done a little investigation here, and with some modest tech we can make Scramble Sensors ignore pets - but realize that means all pets: torpedoes, fighters, deployable frigates, and mines. With this, we are inclined to think a max targets of 5 is appropriate.

Also, we think the issue with targeting is because there is also an automatic retargeting effect where every so often you will have your target shifted. With a little tech we can flag this power to ignore that for players, meaning if you have nothing targeted or an enemy targeted you will apply Science Team, for example, to yourself. If you specifically targeted a friend, you would still apply Science Team or anything else to that friend.


For Tactical Team:

We're discussing possible additional effects for Tactical Team if redistribute shields is spun off to its own ability. Ideally, we'd like something that isn't over-represented elsewhere, but that may be overly optimistic.

For the spun-off ability, our current thinking is that:
1. Not be on the "Team" power GCD
2. Self only
3. Recharge time in the 60s area



Quote:
Originally Posted by PatricianVetinari
Scramble Sensors Proposal
Maybe make it reduced by half, but allow a slight increase based on skill, so that at max skill we get 2/3 exising times.
To clarify, the proposal has the duration being reduced BY a third, not TO a third. So, the final result would be about 2/3 of existing times.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 53
09-19-2011, 02:03 PM
As much as I want to say that makes SS less effective against carriers... it does keep a team with 2 carriers from having SS AOE protection by default.

I think its a workable change... it keeps SS on players where it does the most good (or harm) in general. lol
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 54
09-19-2011, 02:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heretic
For Tactical Team:

We're discussing possible additional effects for Tactical Team if redistribute shields is spun off to its own ability. Ideally, we'd like something that isn't over-represented elsewhere, but that may be overly optimistic.

For the spun-off ability, our current thinking is that:
1. Not be on the "Team" power GCD
2. Self only
3. Recharge time in the 60s area
I've never been a terribly huge fan of recharges over 45 seconds.

Would it be possible to tie it in with Attack Patterns? Something along the lines of...

Attack Pattern Nacho
Ranks: Lt, LtC, Cmdr
Duration: 3/6/9 seconds, slight increase with skilling (max cap of 7/10/13 seconds or something; yay random numbers!)
Cooldown: 45 seconds (global with other attack patterns)

As a Lt skill with a decreased duration of what is currently available, it would still force most Sci ships and Cruisers to choose wisely. The cooldown would be long enough to matter, but not too long to make it useless, plus it being tied in with other Attack Patterns would force Escorts to use it wisely as well.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 55
09-19-2011, 02:10 PM
Have you considered doing anything to address the all friends vs all enemies part of SS?

I think part of the problem with Self/Friend powers going all over the place under SS is that everyone is a friend. If everyone became an enemy that wouldn't happen. Also making everyone enemy would eliminate SS revealing cloaked ships on the other team... which (I think) is the reason klinks don't use it nearly as much as feds. I think it would also be a nice way to isolate healers for a short period of time. If everyone is an enemy they can't heal their friends.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 56
09-19-2011, 02:14 PM
I think another thing to consider is the effect of the TT changes on Escorts - they'll be taking a major hit to their survivability.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 57
09-19-2011, 02:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mvs5191 View Post
I think another thing to consider is the effect of the TT changes on Escorts - they'll be taking a major hit to their survivability.
Indeed.

And thus: Give Tactical Team a short-duration bonus to "Defense", just as Engineering Team has "Hull" and Science Team has "Shields".
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 58
09-19-2011, 02:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heretic
For Scramble Sensors:

We've done a little investigation here, and with some modest tech we can make Scramble Sensors ignore pets - but realize that means all pets: torpedoes, fighters, deployable frigates, and mines. With this, we are inclined to think a max targets of 5 is appropriate.
How does this affect PvE play? I know this is the PvP forums, but I feel it's important to understand the effects globally. Going to my example of a Sci ship vs. 8-10 ships in a DSE... Which Enemy ships are effected? Sometimes there are fighters and mines and torps there to deal with...

In PvP if max targets == 5 player ships, ignoring spam, that's fine. Though it still means people are going to want to use spam as then they can still be offensively effective while Scramble. This being particularlly true of Carriers, of course. (Many of whom, I understand, rely on their spawn for damage anyway.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heretic
Also, we think the issue with targeting is because there is also an automatic retargeting effect where every so often you will have your target shifted. With a little tech we can flag this power to ignore that for players, meaning if you have nothing targeted or an enemy targeted you will apply Science Team, for example, to yourself. If you specifically targeted a friend, you would still apply Science Team or anything else to that friend.
My brains not working today apparently. This paragraph is confusing me. Will someone please explain/decipher?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heretic
For Tactical Team...spun-off...Recharge time in the 60s area...
Could we make the CD be more in the 45s area, please?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heretic
To clarify, the proposal has the duration being reduced BY a third, not TO a third. So, the final result would be about 2/3 of existing times.
Ah! Sorry, forgot my maths. Well, 2/3 of existing time still hurts PvE use, but it's an acceptable compromise.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 59
09-19-2011, 02:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heretic
For Scramble Sensors:

We've done a little investigation here, and with some modest tech we can make Scramble Sensors ignore pets - but realize that means all pets: torpedoes, fighters, deployable frigates, and mines. With this, we are inclined to think a max targets of 5 is appropriate.

Also, we think the issue with targeting is because there is also an automatic retargeting effect where every so often you will have your target shifted. With a little tech we can flag this power to ignore that for players, meaning if you have nothing targeted or an enemy targeted you will apply Science Team, for example, to yourself. If you specifically targeted a friend, you would still apply Science Team or anything else to that friend.
Ok, but how can this help control the amount of spam out there? Indirectly perhaps, by scrambling the player? I don't see how this might discourage carriers and sci-capts from dropping pets into a massive horde of space trash, relentlessly pursuing the opposite team.

Reduction in duration is perfect, though by 1/3 is not enough.

There has to be some sort of diminishing returns on SS if chained, to prevent perma-scramble by 2 or more science captains though. Someone earlier suggested a scramble immunity, which I like.

Quote:
For Tactical Team:

We're discussing possible additional effects for Tactical Team if redistribute shields is spun off to its own ability. Ideally, we'd like something that isn't over-represented elsewhere, but that may be overly optimistic.

For the spun-off ability, our current thinking is that:
1. Not be on the "Team" power GCD
2. Self only
3. Recharge time in the 60s area


To clarify, the proposal has the duration being reduced BY a third, not TO a third. So, the final result would be about 2/3 of existing times.
I have to agree with previous posters: making a new distribute shield power would mean it becomes the new "must-have" on the power tray.

The only option to prevent this might be putting it at a level that competes with other strategically significant powers, making the choice to use it be one based on strategy and not out of convenience.

Others have proposed having TT instead affect the ticks for distribute shields -- I like this idea.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 60
09-19-2011, 02:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heretic
Hey guys,
Scramble Sensors Proposal
1. Reduce maximum duration by about a third.
2. Max Targets to 5 (there has to be a cap on this, but we are willing to consider a higher cap than 5)
3. When under a confuse effect, if you have no target any power that is Self-or-Friend will always target Self. Meaning, instead of doing the camera shuffle you would only have to deselect then hit Science Team to clear the effect.
1.) Like
2.) hrmm, i think reducing the AoR wil be a betetr choice, since it would not encurages spaming mines and other stuff to try to prevent from been effected.
3.) Like, make it so.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heretic
Tactical Team Proposal
1. Split off the shield redistribution as a new, separate Boff power starting at Ensign
2. Keep recharge time the same.
3. Reduce duration of all effects from current 10s to 5s.
4. Add an additional effect that is tactical themed, not damage, and is either instant or 5s in duration.

For the Tactical Team proposal, we would welcome suggestions for an appropriate new effect for #4.
hrmm, not sure, as tac in a cruiser, i have very little tac bo slots and especially shield healing is on the low side as well, compared to engs or sci captains. While damage is not that much better. So it would make such a weak combo even weaker.

1.) maybe as eng power.
2.) fine with me
3.) well that brings it in line with the other team skills
4.) i rather like the idea of a poor mans APO for this.
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