Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 1 Lcars
09-26-2011, 10:37 PM
The Game and website clearly lack that certain Star Trek feel! Why the lack of LCARS? I cannot see how licensing can keep LCARS away when we have just about EVERYTHING else Star Trek here. What would be the purpose of have only that ONE element left out?

You have LCARS in a faded fashion on the load screens and (only in blue tones) in the ESD menus like shipyard and exchange) but even that is totally lack-luster version of it.

Sorry if this has been brought up before but Search was no help for me on this subject.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 2
09-26-2011, 10:53 PM
For me, the lack of LCARS means that STO doesn't feel as Trek as it should. But then its such a hodge-podge mix-match of sci-fi it isn't a great representation of Star Trek (for me) anyway.

Unfortunately, LCARS is very difficult to make work practically and I don't see them changing it anytime soon. For Cryptic to overhall the interface and most importantly the textures, it would require a significant amount of resources ....

Like many others, I really don't like the all blue
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 3
09-26-2011, 11:14 PM
That problem would be solved if they would just allow the community the UI graphics code so we can have many many options like they used to do for EQ, WoW, SwG and others. http://www.lcarscom.net/ http://www.lcars-terminal.net/pictures/picbig4.jpg http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Libr...trieval_System http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JBzm4...eature=related

I booted up Bridge Commander last week just for fun and all the game menus are LCARS. my reaction 'See? this is what STO should be doing!!"
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 4
09-27-2011, 01:32 PM
Personally speaking, as iconic as LCARS is, it's a lousy user interface. I like having a nice clean interface which the game client hud give. Pop windows like the DOFF system, I can tolerate as LCARS so long as it's just window dressing.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 5
09-27-2011, 02:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jkstocbr
Unfortunately, LCARS is very difficult to make work practically and I don't see them changing it anytime soon. For Cryptic to overhall the interface and most importantly the textures, it would require a significant amount of resources ....
Actually, Overhauling the in-game LCARS would take one guy with graphics program knowledge about two days (to do a really really good job for both Fed and Kling assuming he already had a general design to work off) Maybe even less than that.

I ought to know, I re-textured Elite Force maps a *ton* in pre-STO days and the first thing I did was knock out the LCARS.

I've seen STOs LCARS texture files; combined Fed and KDF there are fewer files than for all the LCARS on some maps I re-textured.

Re-doing the website; well to just replace existing images (each little segment of the LCARS) with something the same shape but different color and feel, would be easy.
Re-designing it would be of course a larger endeavor.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 6
09-27-2011, 07:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan_Kent View Post
Actually, Overhauling the in-game LCARS would take one guy with graphics program knowledge about two days (to do a really really good job for both Fed and Kling assuming he already had a general design to work off) Maybe even less than that.
I am one guy with graphics programming knowledge and I know our UI system intimately.

Basically it would take at the very least two weeks of artist time to just build all the new art assets (not including the overhead of getting the new design approved), another week to get it into the game, and a month of testing on top of that to find all the places that were missed. And that's just for a single new skin into the game.

It is possible to do a slapdash HUD skin in a day or two (we did it as an internal April Fools prank), but it was only the HUD, the bare minimum to get it working, not functioning, and five of us working on it. Later three of us (two programmers and one UI artist) did a complete UI skin/redesign for one of our other projects and it took about two months of work to get it in a built and tested state.

Even building a brand new UI from scratch takes awhile, the new Ship Store took about two weeks to get the rough implementation finished, and another month after that to get the UI to the point where it is now.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 7
09-27-2011, 07:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by FallingSky
I am one guy with graphics programming knowledge and I know our UI system intimately.

Basically it would take at the very least two weeks of artist time to just build all the new art assets (not including the overhead of getting the new design approved), another week to get it into the game, and a month of testing on top of that to find all the places that were missed. And that's just for a single new skin into the game.

It is possible to do a slapdash HUD skin in a day or two (we did it as an internal April Fools prank), but it was only the HUD, the bare minimum to get it working, not functioning, and five of us working on it. Later three of us (two programmers and one UI artist) did a complete UI skin/redesign for one of our other projects and it took about two months of work to get it in a built and tested state.

Even building a brand new UI from scratch takes awhile, the new Ship Store took about two weeks to get the rough implementation finished, and another month after that to get the UI to the point where it is now.


Like I said "a significant amount of resources "
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 8
09-27-2011, 08:05 PM
Do you mean to tell me that you don't have a magic wand that does all that for you?

I get what you're saying, people always think things are easier and quicker than they are.

I tend to think of it like this:

Time = (Quality / NumberOfWorkers) + Bureaucracy;
If (committeeApproval.needed)
{ Time *= 10; return Time}
else
{return Time;}

*Hope that's not WAY to nerdy to post on a Star Trek forum...

I would LOVE to have a shot at designing or refining the UI myself, but i'd assume that's probably against the rules.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 9
09-27-2011, 08:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by FallingSky
It is possible to do a slapdash HUD skin in a day or two (we did it as an internal April Fools prank), but it was only the HUD, the bare minimum to get it working, not functioning,
Oh no no no...

I mean the LCARS textures that go on panels within the maps themselves.

Redoing the HUD? of course that would take longer its infinitely more intricate it has to function, as opposed to just get mapped on straight and look pretty like the map textures.
Besides, I like the HUD as-is anyways because its less distracting as a solid color.

Thats the trouble with LCARS; it can be taken to mean both the textures on map assets *and* the user interface AND the website.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 10
09-27-2011, 08:18 PM
I kinda like this for a simple, clean-looking LCARS: http://startrek-is.com/category/news/. My biggest complaint about the STO LCARS is that just feels/looks too bulky, and not at all streamlined. It's like Duplo Lego versus normal Lego. If I were to suggest one change to the current layout, it would be to reduce those faint outlines to 1 pixel-width, make them less prominent. You know the ones I mean? and just generally make it look flatter and less like it raises off the screen an 8th of an inch or so. After all, LCARS is just a container. The focus should be more on what's in it.

(Just my 2 cents)

Edit: I like the LCARS on the newer loading screens. I was hoping they were a sign of an upcoming UI overhaul as they look so much better. I love the fact they've got that little readout with the current date, time and stardate. Nice touch.
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:42 PM.