Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
The question is simple. I like my cruisers but the Marauder Patrol Cruiser looks like weaksauce to me. I like the Vor'cha retrofit and it's BOFF layout better. Will be I robbing myself?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 2
09-28-2011, 09:06 PM
I'm not sure what exactly are you asking the Vor'Cha retrofit is a very fine ship, pretty deadly and very sturdy in the right hands. So can the Marauder, but the Marauder was a science focus while the Vor'cha has a eng with tac as secondary focus.
Different playstyles for each.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 3
09-28-2011, 10:02 PM
Sorry if I wasn't all that clear. I only used those two ships as an example. What I am asking is if those Lt. General ships and better than the Brig. General ones?

Would I be gimping myself by not upgrading to a Lt. General ranked ship asap, or are those previous tier ones still competitive?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 4
09-28-2011, 11:38 PM
The ships you get at VA or Lt.General are still Tier 5. They are not exactly designed to be better (or worse) than the other ships. In practice, the MVAM Advanced Escort and Long Range Science Vessel Retrofit come out ahead, though, and the Patrol Cruiser, Fleet Support Vessel, Exploration Cruiser Retrofit come off as a little weak.

You will not be gimping yourself if you stay in a Vor'Cha Retrofit, for example.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 5
09-29-2011, 12:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by homerdick
Sorry if I wasn't all that clear. I only used those two ships as an example. What I am asking is if those Lt. General ships and better than the Brig. General ones?

Would I be gimping myself by not upgrading to a Lt. General ranked ship asap, or are those previous tier ones still competitive?
The Vorcha is a very nice ship. The Marauder is better as a purpose-built healer IMO (because it can carry 2 science heals and a science team), but there's nothing wrong with the Vorcha as a more offensively oriented cruiser.

The Negh'var has kind of a crappy BOff layout IMO. If you wanted 4 'Emergency Power' abilities (the max you can chain without locking yourself out on cool downs), it's easy enough to do that with just two engineering BOffs -- the third engineering ensign is next to useless. It's probably the worst BOff configuration of any ship.

The simple answer is that better or worse depend on the ship and on your play style.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 6
09-29-2011, 01:06 AM
I believe if someone is asking a question its fine to give out your opinion since we all have one. At the same time disrespecting one kind of ship due to personal preference or unfavorable experiences in a specified ship does not help anyone make decisions they are asking a question about (unless specific examples or reasoning are specified). So I have laid out some finer points to help the OP make a decision on how to decide.

Pro's on Vorcha Retrofit are Cloaking, 300 more Crew, ensign tactical station, better turn rate (not by much), 1 more tactical console.

As for the marauder the pro's are higher amount of shielding, higher amount of hull, science ensign station, higher engine rating/speed, has the interceptor ability which has been posted by devs will one day soon become a carrier type hangar (so higher benefits theoretically there). Also the interceptors are basically fighters but they are special and one reason in my opinion that separates the ship as a LG ship these interceptors "capture crew" (have not tested mine enough or really looked to see if it just kills them or enslaves them as a crew heal for your ship or not) of the enemy target as well as disable subsystems.

There are other concerns you may want to look into such as Vorcha is +10 to Weapons and Engines where as the Marauder is +5 to all power levels

Those are the facts between the two as for my opinion based on these facts If these 2 are the only 2 you are interested in just get both of them and try them out. As for the facts on them the Marauder clearly has more advantages and will possibly be the new carrier best for the engineer who wants to go with a mostly engineering boff layout (any class can use it, just takes more creativity and initiative when going off the reservation). The only time personally I would use the Vor'cha over the Marauder is instances where you want the element of surprise with the cloak.

I hope this helped or answered your question

(Side note some of the huge advantages of the Marauder is that with the heavy engineering and heavy low end science you can set yourself up with a various amount of things such as engineering and science shield boffs, hull heals, anti tractors, turn rate modifiers, and still have enough offensive skills to boot where as many other cruisers limit the flexibility of boff placement compared to this one).
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 7
09-29-2011, 01:22 AM
@Zeuxidemus

That was a much more detailed reply than I expected +)

I didn't care for the Marauder because the Interceptors, as they stand, looked very underwhelming to me. If they are getting a revamp, that does change things a bit. In my personal case, I was looking at the Vor'cha because the char who would fly it is a tac officer and the Vor'cha refit has more tac BOFF slots. Plus I preferred the cloak over the current incarnation of the Interceptors.

Really though, the answer I was looking for has been provided. Tier 5 ships are reasonably close in effectiveness.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 8
09-29-2011, 02:09 AM
As you are looking at the Vor'cha for a tac captain, let me tell you some about that, since that is what i fly.

Its an easy ship at first glance, but its also a very difficult ship as tac.
You have to carefully use for boffs to get some tanking ability or in a PvP match you will be considered first target, since normally a tac in a cruiser is squishy.
Ability wise, science is the big weakness that combination has, just 2 science boff skills and thats it. You will run into stuff you just don't have a counter for. Which you chose is up to you.

Weapon wise i started with beams, its ok, very flexible and reasonable dps, with a BOL2 and good dual beams you can do some good spike damage.

Cannon builds work very well on the Vor'cha, it has the turn rate to not suck to much at them.
A pretty good combo is 4 turrets aft, 2 dual heavy front and 2 single cannons front. for an all energy build, if you want torps to make better use of the ensign tac slots, replace as desired of course.

Right now i'm using on mine 4 turrets aft, 1 photon front and 3 dual heavy cannons front. As long as you can get your front at the target, the damage is a lot higher then the beam variant, but harder to keep on target. And you can only have 1 cannon skill active at any time, since the ship only has the boff slot for one. I alternate between rapid fire and scatter volley depending on what i go up against.

I also experimented with a dual beam instead of the torp, but the result was unsatisfactory, the torp deals more damage in a prolonged fight, especially since the torp spread power was changed. But it can be a potent setup if you stick to either FAW1 or BOL1 for the beam, otherwise you would have to sacrifice your single cannon power.

I also tried out a full torpedo build, but the lack of higher tac boff powers leaves that on the drawing board, the damage output is just mediocre.

And the Vor'Cha just looks the best

For equipment, aegis engine, resilient capx3 shield, deflector depends on which one give you the best bonus for the skills you selected, i use the aegis on with mine. borg assimilated console and the field emitter for extra shield strength are pretty much a must have. RCS makes a small difference, but i prefer a armor console instead.
The borg shield also works very well, especial in PvE against the borg In PvP it can work also extremely well, but you are much more spike damage vulnerable with it.

The Isometric Charge from the c-store Vor'Kang variant is pretty lackluster in PvP, and ok bis nice in PvE, if you run into a group of frigate or similar ships. Building the ship around that console and maximizing its damage is not worth it.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 9
09-29-2011, 02:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by homerdick
@Zeuxidemus

That was a much more detailed reply than I expected +)

I didn't care for the Marauder because the Interceptors, as they stand, looked very underwhelming to me. If they are getting a revamp, that does change things a bit. In my personal case, I was looking at the Vor'cha because the char who would fly it is a tac officer and the Vor'cha refit has more tac BOFF slots. Plus I preferred the cloak over the current incarnation of the Interceptors.

Really though, the answer I was looking for has been provided. Tier 5 ships are reasonably close in effectiveness.
Yeah they are reasonably close, I just did that detailed thing because there's a lot of threads with misinformation in them which seems to be a common occurrence in STO since the day I started LOL. The only exception was the b'rel up until this latest fix.

(Side note I do favor the Negh'Var sometimes over it just because of the inertia power it has to be the fastest turning cruiser in the game with inertia dampeners 2, because of the lack of that extra tact boff my tact init is always on cool down).
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 10
09-30-2011, 09:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Idali
As you are looking at the Vor'cha for a tac captain, let me tell you some about that, since that is what i fly.

Its an easy ship at first glance, but its also a very difficult ship as tac.
You have to carefully use for boffs to get some tanking ability or in a PvP match you will be considered first target, since normally a tac in a cruiser is squishy.
Ability wise, science is the big weakness that combination has, just 2 science boff skills and thats it. You will run into stuff you just don't have a counter for. Which you chose is up to you.

Weapon wise i started with beams, its ok, very flexible and reasonable dps, with a BOL2 and good dual beams you can do some good spike damage.

Cannon builds work very well on the Vor'cha, it has the turn rate to not suck to much at them.
A pretty good combo is 4 turrets aft, 2 dual heavy front and 2 single cannons front. for an all energy build, if you want torps to make better use of the ensign tac slots, replace as desired of course.

Right now i'm using on mine 4 turrets aft, 1 photon front and 3 dual heavy cannons front. As long as you can get your front at the target, the damage is a lot higher then the beam variant, but harder to keep on target. And you can only have 1 cannon skill active at any time, since the ship only has the boff slot for one. I alternate between rapid fire and scatter volley depending on what i go up against.

I also experimented with a dual beam instead of the torp, but the result was unsatisfactory, the torp deals more damage in a prolonged fight, especially since the torp spread power was changed. But it can be a potent setup if you stick to either FAW1 or BOL1 for the beam, otherwise you would have to sacrifice your single cannon power.

I also tried out a full torpedo build, but the lack of higher tac boff powers leaves that on the drawing board, the damage output is just mediocre.

And the Vor'Cha just looks the best

For equipment, aegis engine, resilient capx3 shield, deflector depends on which one give you the best bonus for the skills you selected, i use the aegis on with mine. borg assimilated console and the field emitter for extra shield strength are pretty much a must have. RCS makes a small difference, but i prefer a armor console instead.
The borg shield also works very well, especial in PvE against the borg In PvP it can work also extremely well, but you are much more spike damage vulnerable with it.

The Isometric Charge from the c-store Vor'Kang variant is pretty lackluster in PvP, and ok bis nice in PvE, if you run into a group of frigate or similar ships. Building the ship around that console and maximizing its damage is not worth it.
A tac in a cruiser is no squishier than a tac in an Escort or BoP. Also, does not the Qin Raptor and Neg'var also have the same science BOFF slot as the Vor'cha?
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