Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 21
10-03-2011, 04:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rmh1865 View Post
The problem is that without word from the developers it's difficult for us to test anything and provide meaningful feedback. If the gap is intended, which I suspect, and we're supposed to be making that up along the way with exploration missions and whatnot, we can't tell them right now if the gap is too big or to small, or rate the rewards of the missions at all.

With mission XP boosted so much, I'm flying past tiers that should probably be tested but there's a time limit if I want to get the rewards for hitting VA so I'm doing something that doesn't really need to be tested at all: Leveling through T3 and T4 content with a T2 ship. How many folks do you think are going to go back and level a second toon on Tribble?
And it seem the devs are ignoring everything to do with these forums to answer DOFF questions and concerns in the other sections of the forum.

I would like to hear something from the devs on whether this is intended wit the dilithium or not and if it is will there be enough given throughout the leveling process to be able to afford the new ship at rank with little to no grind needed.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 22
10-03-2011, 04:34 PM
I would pick up the LC ship.. it's far more bearable than the Miranda/Centaur/Shi-something.. and just tough it out and make it to Rear Admiral in one.

Then you _might_ have enough dilithium for that vessel.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisWorth
And it seem the devs are ignoring everything to do with these forums to answer DOFF questions and concerns in the other sections of the forum.
Well, Heretic's an awesome guy and it seems the DOff system is his baby. The dilithium system belongs to someone else.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 23
10-03-2011, 04:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptExpendable
I have to admit, I'm a bit iffy over the whole "buy your new ship" paradigm the devs are looking into. Even with the promise of regular missions and such granting more dilitium than we're getting during this (early) test phase, it still feels too much like the Ferengi bought out the shipyards at Utopia Planetia.

I've heard this idea bandied about, and I think I'll take the opportunity to voice it again: this is an excellent avenue to help distinguish and give incentive towards Gold accounts.

Silver: we'll need a down payment, Lieutenant.
Gold: Welcome aboard, Captain.

We'll see how things look as we're deeper into testing.
A fantastic point!!

We are testing this as it will be f2p, after all.

I'd like to offer a perspective on this:

Even when the game is Free To Play, and even if it isn't Pay to Win, per-se, there will still have to be something that people can pay for for incentive. This something is often, summed up, time. If it takes, say, 10 more missions worth of time to get enough Dilithium to buy my new ship, I could do that. Or, I could just by 10 missions worth of dillithium and not spend the time on that. As a free player, I would not mind this, because I both have the time to spend, myself, and know that they have to make money some how.

As a pay player, I know that this means that I can spend less time grinding and more time on other aspects of the game I might like more. It's not quite an "I Win" Button. People who have alot of time to spend on the game will probably allways outweigh me as far as value of equipment is concerned, unless I spend quite a bit of money, but this does give me something for my money.

Does that make sense?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 24
10-04-2011, 01:33 AM
Even from the perspective of a potential F2P player, I'm uncomfortable with the idea of grinding through for new tiers of ships. It puts you at such a disadvantage, and I know the company needs money, but if they make things too frustrating, people will just stop playing.

With most F2P games, you're not crippled by not paying. You just don't get as many options. So the first ship at each rank should be free, but make it cost more to get a second ship. And remember, even those of us with lifetime subscriptions will eventually have to buy ships with dilithium, even if it's our VA ships. Remember that dilithium is replacing Marks and Emblems. If it becomes the currency of new ships instead of (the quite easily attainable) ECs, then we'll see a lot of VAs grinding for dilithium as well. If the entire game becomes a grind for dilithium, then it loses a lot of its appeal.

If they really want to get F2P players to pay for micro-transactions, hit them where we all want it... customization. Give them free ships. Then make them grind for dilithium or pay cash transactions to change from a Nova to a Quasar.

As it is, the smart players will learn to live with alternating tiers. They'll skip 2 and 4 or maybe 3 and 5. If it takes you 4 levels of grinding for dilithium to get your Tier 3 ship, why spend only 6 levels in it when you can keep your Tier 2 for those 6 levels and get your Tier 4 as soon as you hit Captain. Is anyone going to miss the Heavy Cruiser or the Research Science Vessel? No. They're going to skip and go straight from Nova to Intrepid or Connie Refit to Galaxy.

Final point: We've been told repeatedly that CBS doesn't want Tier 2 level vessels to be operating at endgame levels, and that's why there'll never be a T5 Connie, etc. We've also been told repeatedly that they don't want you to upgrade ships because it would be confusing for PVP to go into a fight with a Tier 3 ship only to realize it's really a Tier 6 in a Tier 3 skin. These are the arguments that have been given by Cryptic for why we can't mess up the tiered system. The whole "tier" system is based on the idea that at each rank you fly a new class of ship. So let me pose this problem: If you don't give each rank a tier-appropriate vessel upon ranking up, won't that ultimately lead to a breakdown of the tiers anyway, as Commanders go around flying Rapiers, Novas and Vespers because they don't feel like grinding for dilithium?

Or maybe we'll just prove CBS wrong in the first place and show them that Connies can indeed go up against the Borg and do just fine.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 25
10-04-2011, 01:53 AM
Well, I am starting to not like the Dilithium idea. Im holding out till new patches (hopefully soon since as far as I have read on the Tribble forums dilithium is bugged as far as the amount you get per tier) and hopefully it gets patched soon. Its a game breaker. I really do not want to grind through commander in my T2 ship.

This should of been fixed right away. And the dev silence on the matter is disconcerting/demoralizing. At least give us a time frame as to when it will be fixed. Silence is not a good policy when you are testing something this big. And if you are going to push a patch, make sure its something that is affecting everyone and is a game breaker.

I want to test. I really cant right now. Im LTC9 (4 skill points from 10) and still have MkII quest reward greens. I would grind exploration missions but you dont get Dilithium. I would do dailies but you get nothing to dent the cost of Ship/Personal gear at the vendors. Its like a cruel joke they are playing on us. "Level up, get rewards but you have to do it in a Miranda." I feel like Pavlov's Dog.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 26
10-04-2011, 06:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Notion
*snip Big*
Lots of good points here, and you are right, if it's a big problem for 'grinding' to get Dilithium, there will be a problem. But I don't really consider picking up every daily that you can grab that much of a 'grind' on STO. Rather, it's the closest thing we have to a Grind, I think. I dunno, maybe I equate grinding to running around WoW's Barrens killing everything in sight for the off chance it'll have a piece of something you want for that quest you picked up 10 lvls ago...

STO has almost nothing like that. It's just about all episodes, assignments, or mini-missions that are themselves actually pretty fun to play. The closest thing I can think of is scanning anomalies and that's not that bad either, as the mini-game goes a long way to alleviating the boredom, there.

If a silver, or even a gold player decides they don't want to pick up their available dailies each chance they get so that they can have enough dilithium, I'd say that it's their call. But at the same time, there should, of course, be plenty of options on getting dillithium that you don't have to, say, do the Sattelite Repair mission over and over again 10 times.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 27
10-04-2011, 08:16 AM
It's the silence from the devs on the issue that has me the most irritated about it. Finally last night we at least got confirmation that they realize it is an issue.

Now if we could just get a statement about whether it was intended, what the supposed game plan is for it, whether they want people to grind the remainder or what have you. Some communication from the devs on what the intentions are/were/havechangedto would be nice.

Is that to much to ask for?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 28
10-04-2011, 08:34 AM
This whole dilithium ordeal is the closest thing to a dealbreaker I've come accross in regards to STO. I believe it will be fixed eventually on Tribble, but I'm having a little trouble wrapping my head around the fact that the devs want their build tested by the players, but they throw their saboe all up in their work to make it such a a grind. I've just hit Commander 1 on Tribble. I won't be playing on tribble again until I have my T3 as I'm supposed to.

I really don't appreciate the fact that you are forced to take a specific path to level up. Some missions just aren't for some folks... This F2P mess is really dragging the game down, I think.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 29
10-04-2011, 06:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptExpendable
I've heard this idea bandied about, and I think I'll take the opportunity to voice it again: this is an excellent avenue to help distinguish and give incentive towards Gold accounts.

Silver: we'll need a down payment, Lieutenant.
Gold: Welcome aboard, Captain.
Hm.. you mean:
  • Silver: on obtaining a promotion, receives refined dilithium towards the purchase of a new ship,

  • Gold: on obtaining a promotion, receives everything Silver players are granted as well as a plaque for one of the standard three vessels that we are currently used to receiving when we obtain a new rank.
Is this what you meant?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 30
10-04-2011, 10:54 PM
I find that lack of ship tokens kinda odd, we should at least get one ship per level.

We all know that we will want more ships per level so would it hurt just to give us one to grind with?
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