Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 31
10-05-2011, 12:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain_Revo
new tutorial is not much different to what it was before.

im fine with the action start. perhaps a little variety would have been nice. perhaps an action tutorial for your kirks and a more low key one for your picards.

janeway's one was lost and will be here in 7 years.
Heh, except Picard gained his first command the exact same way
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 32
10-05-2011, 12:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sagison View Post
I was batting around an idea with friends a few nights ago...up until LCDR, you could have a ship of players with an NPC Captain who "tells you where to go", also known as gives you your missions / quests. Especially with the F2P model forcing a single line of mission progression (at least in its current build), it's not like you'd have much of a choice on where to go or what to do whether you were the designated commanding officer or not.

Perhaps once you made LCDR, you could have the option of moving on to the game play as it exists now. Various permutations of the above could also occur. I realize that it would likely be cumbersome to support two such disparate game modes, but I'm just tossing out ideas.

Perhaps, too, the option could be there for fleets...maybe fleetmates wouldn't mind to volunteer to serve on a ship together? Just thinking aloud.

I get that a big issue is tech, or at least that's what everyone seems to say when the idea of multiple players on a ship is brought up, but we've seen another game get the crew of a player run starship down pretty well, so I know it's at least possible, although maybe not with STO's particular engine. Dunno...not a techie by any stretch of the imagination.

Now returning to my sizeable minority buddies...
The idea of fleets as crew is not practical. The legistics involved mean that the only way you could play is if you can find a fleet that 1, you like 2, likes you and 3, is active at the same time you want to play. For most people that is going to mean that they don't play STO.

The idea of all low level players starting out on the same ship taking orders from an NPC captain isn't a bad one (it would mean the early game is like the tutorial). You could even get your own shuttle and have some space missions. However it's not the direction Cryptic took, and it's too late to make that sort of change now. Muct the same way that it's too late to remove ship tiers from the game.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 33
10-05-2011, 12:09 PM
They could tweak it a lot...
Command or tactical could keep this origin,but science and engineers could have different back stories.

But that would mean adding content for sci and engin to each mission,which could take a while....if you wanted the whole game to play your story.

And while they were at it they could add klingon content to every mission....

And after that the new races could have content for each mission....


Sounds like a lot of work to me.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 34
10-05-2011, 01:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turtlewing View Post
The idea of fleets as crew is not practical. The legistics involved mean that the only way you could play is if you can find a fleet that 1, you like 2, likes you and 3, is active at the same time you want to play. For most people that is going to mean that they don't play STO.

The idea of all low level players starting out on the same ship taking orders from an NPC captain isn't a bad one (it would mean the early game is like the tutorial). You could even get your own shuttle and have some space missions. However it's not the direction Cryptic took, and it's too late to make that sort of change now. Muct the same way that it's too late to remove ship tiers from the game.
They can do a simpler thing - you could have your own initial ship with a NPC captain instead of being given full-command. For ground missions, you are in charge of the away team just like Riker in TNG. For space missions "you have the Conn. lieutenant" (just like Paris in VOY, Dax in DS9, etc.). It just requires a bit of tweaking with the comm dialog boxes, which would display your captain instead of the BOffs that are shown now. The rest of the gameplay would be quite similar.

You can start as the captains favorite protege (while getting more and more privileges, e.g. PvP access, as you progress through lvl 2-11), then become the first officer at lvl 12 (when the DOff system opens up and you are in charge of the roster like Riker in TNG), and then get your first command somewhere during the Commander rank. The gameplay shouldn't change much - just some text (and maybe some UI tweaks). You could still be in charge of exploration missions, etc., just like Dax and Worf were de facto in charge of some missions even though Sisko was the de jure captain.

Your ship-stationed BOffs will be your trusted shift-mates (there are usually command-shifts on the ship's bridge, as shown several times on TNG). Buying a new ship would be considered a reassignment, so you would get a new NPC captain for the new ship. All other game elements can also be explained under this background story in similar ways. So you don't REALLY need to change that much of the gameplay - just the text. It also fits perfectly that your missions are basically happening on your command-shift, since one plays the game for a few hours a day, and when you're logged-out it's the "other guys" shift/s.

For the KDF one can have a cool mission where he is supposed to fight his own captain (a boss fight) in order to take command of the ship. The storyline could lead to that by showing "weak" decisions from the captain in a mission, and then revealing that he is in fact an Undine.

(this reply became too large to check for typos - so please excuse any of them :p)
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 35
10-05-2011, 01:41 PM
Quote:
They can do a simpler thing - you could have your own initial ship with a NPC captain instead of being given full-command.
Yeah, but for those of us who WANT to play the Captain? Honestly, it seems simpler that there should just be more social places where Captains can shoot the breeze and possibly Captain's only action zones. That seems more like a "cake and eat it too" place.

I guess as a causal gamer my needs are more clear. I want to, AT THE START, be able to do this:

* Go anywhere I want to go.
* Immediately engage in starship fun fleet action.
* Assemble a crew I like.
* Engage in awesome Trek-like missions where I can be Kirk talking to the Gren Alien Lady.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 36
10-05-2011, 02:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlemagne19
Interesting question,

Due to instancing, every character of Star Trek: Online is basically playing a single-player campaign built around the fact that he gets a Chris Pine Kirk-esque origin. He's promoted to lieutenant and given command of a garbage scow-esque ship - so it's SLIGHTLY more believable but the same basic principle applies.

From there, the PC proceeds to single handedly carve his way through the Klingon race (if he's Federation) before moving onto blowing up a Romulan warbird with a shuttle on your first Romulan story mission and then only goes from there.

Basically, by the end of things, your character is the most action packed heroic superhero of superheroes Starfleet has ever produced.

Do you like this origin for your character or would you have preferred something slightly more lower-key for your Captain?
Our captains don't shout one-liners like TNG films though. Lower key for us would be better--but at least we're not as godawfully schmaltzy as the TNG films.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 37
10-05-2011, 02:34 PM
Ok, you don't have to be the "official" captain to do these 4 things:
* Go anywhere - when you log-in it's your command-shift (and you have the conn), so you can choose where to fly to, unless you're in a mission, in which case you anyway have your orders (even now).
* engage in fleet actions - you are anyway given orders by someone to report to the fleet action (and to any other task), so it might as well be your captain giving the order or approving it (under the "your shift = you have the bridge" principle). You can also control the spaceship during the fights & flights without being the captain (you don't REALLY know or care where you sit inside the ship, since you control it from the external view).
* Assemble your own team - no problem, you choose the bridge officers on your shift and the task force you want to come with you when you go on an away team, just like Riker chose them and not Picard on TNG.
* Trek-like missions & Kirk-like characters - Riker was much more Kirk-like then Picard, and I'm sure he did more than talking with some green ladies

TNG was mostly based on Picard being a top-level manager, with Riker being the action-man. Also, the captain rarely controlled the ship directly. In DS9 the story evolved around many low-rank officers taking command of Runabout & Defiant runs to the Gamma quadrant, etc. Also, Dax took command of the defiant while being Lt. Commander when Sisko was promoted to assist the admiral.

What I'm saying is that the gameplay itself doesn't necessarily need to change, the background story could be different to accommodate for "traditional" trekkies that want a more believable experience rather than a super-captain one. Personally, I think it would be nice for an alt to have the choice to start from a real low-deck position and work his way up, as an alternative to the borg-based tutorial. A nice touch could be to use the appearances (and names/details) of other suitable captains in the account as his COs at some point.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 38
10-05-2011, 02:51 PM
I'm sorry but I just wouldn't like it.

I actually appreciate the amount of freedom your character possesses in following orders. There's obviously a huge amount of requests made to your PC from various admirals and just not enough time for your character to do them all. So, your character as Captain gets to pick and choose what priority of order that he's going to follow.

To go from another franchise and company, Captain Anderson from Mass Effect is a well-beloved NPC. However, he doesn't LAST very long as the Captain of your starship. You get control over it right after the tutorial. I think that's just the right sort of response there.

Honestly, I'd prefer everyone START as a Captain in Starfleet and just award medals rather than work our way up if that bothers you that much.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 39
10-05-2011, 04:09 PM
Actually, it doesn't bother me at all, since in real military service you usually do command some unit when you become an officer. You get larger and larger units as you advance in rank (just like you do with BOffs, DOffs and ships in STO).

I just said that Cryptic could find a compromise between the current gameplay and the "background story" reservations some people raised in this thread.

As for missions - the F2P version has a new mission journal with a structured chain of storyline missions, which you should complete in serial order - I meant that these could be given to you by your captain instead of your Admiral (e.g. Quinn for the klingon front). Other missions could be given by other NPCs (e.g. Lt. Commander Grall), and if you take on such a mission the captain would give you the lead on it. It only changes the dialog box with, say, Grall to include an additional screen where the captain says - "Ok, you have the conn...." or something. It also aligns well with Cryptics goal to add more shuttle-based missions.

You're also not thinking about alts. Taking the same route from Ensign to VA a second time is much less fun then the first. They do have the KDF route for this, but it's a bit lacking and in general I like the UFP more than it. One way to add variety is another faction (e.g., the Romulans), but another one could be a different view of the starfleet service - from low-decks to command. DStahl also mentioned an idea to have civilians in the STO universe.

But I'm not even sure if any dev would see this suggestions/discussions, since they seem super-busy with the F2P and judging by the version on Tribble they still have a lot of work ahead of them so we're just having a philosophical debate here.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 40
10-05-2011, 07:41 PM
So if mission replay is now on the main UI, is it fair to assume that the game is taking a direction even farther away from ship interiors with actual purpose?
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