Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
I watched STOked today and when the topic there came to dilithium and the new economy system I was surprised to hear, that the plan is to reward Dilithium Ore which we have to refine by button push.
So far so good, but what peaked my interest was the proposed daily limit of dilithium refinement.
Apparently we can gather as much ore as we want (or have time to) but every day we might eventually hit a cap on how much of that we can actually turn into usable currency. Ore itself is worthless until refined.

I get that this limitation is meant to keep the economy and inflation in check. The stuff is meant to be tradable with C-Points after all.
But doesn't this also mean, that we can/have to effectively stop to play after we reached the limit we can refine?
We can save up for the days were we won't have much playtime, but we still have to log in and refine the ore even on days we would normally not play at all.
This could also lead to a high amount of ore you will never be able to catch up on refining eventually.

This sounds like you put a cap on efficient play time.

Unless the limit would be so high that no one not playing 24/7 would ever reach it.

Can someone please clarify/confirm this?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 2
10-05-2011, 04:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Timelord_Victorious
I watched STOked today and when the topic there came to dilithium and the new economy system I was surprised to hear, that the plan is to reward Dilithium Ore which we have to refine by button push.
So far so good, but what peaked my interest was the proposed daily limit of dilithium refinement.
Apparently we can gather as much ore as we want (or have time to) but every day we might eventually hit a cap on how much of that we can actually turn into usable currency. Ore itself is worthless until refined.

I get that this limitation is meant to keep the economy and inflation in check. The stuff is meant to be tradable with C-Points after all.
But doesn't this also mean, that we can/have to effectively stop to play after we reached the limit we can refine?
We can save up for the days were we won't have much playtime, but we still have to log in and refine the ore even on days we would normally not play at all.
This could also lead to a high amount of ore you will never be able to catch up on refining eventually.

This sounds like you put a cap on efficient play time.

Unless the limit would be so high that no one not playing 24/7 would ever reach it.

Can someone please clarify/confirm this?
It is to control the economy, but more importantly to stop farming. There will also be places to go and events to allow you to get more Dilithium than your daily limit.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 3
10-05-2011, 06:41 PM
Tomorrow's Dev Blog post will explain this topic in depth, so stay tuned!

Stephen D'Angelo
Executive Producer
Star Trek Online
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 4
10-06-2011, 01:02 AM
I'm just glad there doesn't seem to be an Energy Credit requirement in order to refine Dilithium.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 5
10-06-2011, 01:22 AM
I'm honestly hoping that the limits on refinement are also related to the level of the character..

For example, if, let's say, character A was LtC 6, he could only refine say.. 60 Dilithium.. Where a different character at RA UH 3 could refine say 480 per day.

Just a thought.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 6 I do not think...
10-06-2011, 08:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sollaf View Post
It is to control the economy, but more importantly to stop farming. There will also be places to go and events to allow you to get more Dilithium than your daily limit.
I do not think...it is a good policy to antagonize players that choose to 'farm' in the game.

Why?

In an economy, there has to be collectors, processors, and users. The goal is to create 'value'. Value is an intangible concept and is subjective to each individual player.Therefore, you cannot exorcise people who choose to collect resources.

This is why it is important in these games that items have a shelf life.

Howver, I finally watch STOked and read all six diary post from Mr. D'Angelo. I forget the bald headed guys name. The goal is to make dilithium a reward for a players time for playing the game. The reward is and can be in any manner or method a player chooses to undertake.

I believe, based on what was discussed on STOked, once the ore is refined, it will be tradable on the Dilithium to C-Store points action house.

We will have to wait-and-see as to how this works in the game. I think today's update will connect the Tribble C-Store with the Dilithium. I have not found any dilithium in the game yet. I suspect that may be they had it shut off or disabled because the Klingon side of the game was disabled too. The Klingons are to be turned on today.

However, I do not think it is a good manners to exorcise people who choose to farm, then it is to blame people who PVP all day long (farm) for energy credits for the state of the player economy.

The real problem in the game economy, and what is at the root of the massive inflation is that items never cease to exist or breakdown. If you live in a world where people do not need to eat to live, products never breakdown or malfunction. These things will accumulate. The net result is massive inflation.

On a jokey side, it is not a accident that a game created from a group of people who live in a state with the highest inflation and debt have created an artificial environment with the same problems.

Kantian economics only work in an environment where there is only 10 people or less. Once the population is in the 1,000+ range, only the player market can control the player market. That market has to have mechanisms that cause items or products to breakdown and need constant replacement or maintenance.

The point of having a large crew on a ship is so the ship can be maintained. That maintenance cost money or time. In this game energy credits is the instrument to reward for money, dilithium will be the instrument for time. Gold press latinum should be the exchange currency. That means you should be able to exchange latinum into energy credits. You should also be able to exchange dilithium into latinum. However, there should not be a direct exchange for energy credits to dilithium.

That is what will create the market on a fundamental level.

I like the idea of the dilithium ore and the concept of warehousing. I think what has to happen there is players should have to pay a fee to store their collected resources that are being warehoused. In the real world, space is valuable, and no company or person wants to keep any goods sitting around for very long.

Also, the exchange should impose a fee on the products being vended through the main market.

I also think the different markets like DS9, ESD, Drozana, etc. should be separate markets. That means you have to physically go to those markets to buy things. This way at one market the price may be higher or lower. If you want the product delivered to you, you should have to pay a courier to get the item for you.

If the courier decides to rip you off, you should be able to higher a bounty hunter to get your item back. This last part may never happen. However, there are players playing darker characters in the game.

Another idea I think would be better, is to require each player to refuel their starships with refined dilithium. All ships should require fuel. That fuel should be refined. Each ship should have a different burn rate for fuel depending on the use of the ship. If I use my ship more, it should cost me more fuel.

However, in Star Trek, the fuel the ships use is antimatter and red matter. I suspect the fuel is a lithium molecule (lithium (matter) and anti-lithium (antimatter)). The crystal is what allows the control of the collision of the two substances to create the energy necessary for the starship to work.

However, to keep it simple, I think the dilithium system should be used as the fuel source for the ship. This would be the best device to handle inflation in the game.

I also think the players should have to eat in the game to maintain their health and energy. That would also create the need for people to go to social zones and spend money.

That is my two cents.

Thank you.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 7
10-06-2011, 08:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Klytemnestra
~snip
I think the larger attempt is to stop farmers that would be gold sellers. The unfortunate side effect is that it limits normal farmers that are farming for their own goods. Of course we don't know the daily limit is yet. Hopefully it will be high enough that it won't affect normal players, yet low enough to prevent gold selling from being lucrative in the game.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 8
10-06-2011, 11:18 AM
The dilithium means no new ships past Lt. Commander. God, i hope that doesnt make it to the live server.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 9
10-06-2011, 12:38 PM
More than that, with an 8k/day limit, you won't be able to afford *any* of the endgame content, which often costs upwards of 100k a piece (ie: a XI phaser array costs like 145k dilithium. That's over 150 DAYS of refining- and that's just for a single array.


Yes, this is truly a superb plan.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 10
10-06-2011, 01:57 PM
The functional game we've subscribed to appears to be gone. Not a single economy change so far has been positive for the player. I'm not talking about people playing free either, I'm talking about Gold Players. No longer do you get a free ship upon promotion. No longer can you spend a few hours doing exploration missions to gear/tune your ship correctly.


God help you if you decide to switch weapon types when this monstrosity goes live.

I'm sure there will be a few ways to "fix" all these new problems subscribers will have to deal with. And I am sure the best solution will be "Spend Moar $$ !"
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