Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 121
10-06-2011, 01:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexraptor View Post
Which is just wrong and unethical but also most importantly, its very bad buisness.
It's great business for Cryptic. They are just making sure that they capture 95% of the potential gold farming market, rather than letting this revenue go to the botters and spammers. To the extent it keeps those types out of game, at least it has some small benefit for actual players. It won't be enough to keep people playing, but it is what it is. The alternative is letting that money go into someone else's pocket, which is what has happened in most games that have any form of "player economy."
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 122
10-06-2011, 01:22 PM
I've patiently waited, loved, and supported the devs through the content drought, when I heard about perfect world, all of it, not because the games great (which it could be) not because it's the only game I play (which it's not) It's because I love TREK. This game is getting so far away from TREK it's ridiculous.

This really does look like it's turning into pay to win, and we're not ok with that. We subscribe. Silver doesn't. You want our 15 dollars a month, earn it.
You want your lifers to stay, make them want to.
Right now it isn't turning out that way.
We've got 500 day rewards for a reason, because we are dedicated. You want a bunch of freeloaders coming in, buying 20 bucks worth of gear, then burning out and jumping to a new game next month? Fine. Give us a separate server were we can do our GOLD stuff.

This is supposed to be based on Champions? Sorry there gold members get worthwhile perks. Not us from what I'm seeing.

And I only say this out of sheer disappointment. I think everyone that's here right now are fans, not just of sto, but of star trek. Being a trekkie is a camaraderie. We share that, and I think everybody just feels like there taking TREK and ruining it. Kinda JJ Abrams like. When we can see alot more potential to the TREK universe.

I'm sorry for the rant. But I just want this to be the best game it can be.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 123
10-06-2011, 01:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gym_Quirk
Without units, this is still unfounded speculation.

What if dilithium ore is traded in kilos, but refined dilithium is traded in grams?
this really needs to be made clear, and with units of measurement. if its the same units, well my brain hurts already just thinking about it
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 124
10-06-2011, 01:22 PM
I suggest anybody who doesnt like what they are trying to do here just tip off your favorite gaming news site like massively or MMORPG. I'm sure they would be happy to write an article about how Cryptic is trying to force subscribers to spend more money just to get normal in game items. And its obvious our feedback alone isnt enough to make them change. So yeah, get the word out.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 125
10-06-2011, 01:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Commodore_Stipe
Agreed or at least give subscriibers enought dillithium to afford the ship without grinding.
I fully agree with everything said in that post. Cryptic, your not treating us right!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 126
10-06-2011, 01:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Salami_Inferno
We will be bringing the Tribble server down for maintenance to apply a new update.
*Since exploration missions reward dilithium they have been updated to be daily missions.
*Promotion missions given from Admiral Quinn are now available as a remote contact
Duty Officer:
*Stuff
Does this mean all explorations are daily, ore individually daily. For example, if I explore Delta Volanis, does that remove the option to explore the Arucanis Arm until the time expires? Cause when I'm in an exploring mood, I tend to do two or three at a time.

I kind of understand being promoted in the field, but I never really minded going back for them. Does this just mean we can start them remotely, because I'd imagine we still have to be at ESD to actually claim our dilithium/ship.

I just started several longer doff assignments. Are they going to be updated to reflect the new timings and rewards, or do I need to drop and reassign my doffs?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 127
10-06-2011, 01:24 PM
hmm... if the 8,000 dilithilum conversion rate does turn out to be true, then increase it by 8,000 per rank. that way, the grinding won't be too bad

a coversion rate table for those who can't do the math:
Lieutenant = 8,000
Lt. Commander = 16,000
Commander = 24,000
Captain = 32,000
Rear Admiral (LH) = 40,000
Rear Admiral (UH) = 48,000
Vice Admiral = 56,000

would this be fair? at least somewhat?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 128 I'll give you that one
10-06-2011, 01:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gym_Quirk
Without units, this is still unfounded speculation.

What if dilithium ore is traded in kilos, but refined dilithium is traded in grams?
That is the first apologist post I found some merit with. It could work like that.

But you'd think they would have told us that rather than create the tempest that's been going on since yesterday or so. I'd like to think that they wouldn't make people grind for months to outfit one ship, when right now you can do it in days at most.

Remember, they told us that subscribers would not be hurt badly by the upcoming changes. I hope they keep their word.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 129
10-06-2011, 01:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrislove View Post
This is a first for me but I am kinda not feeling some of the upcoming changes. Earlier I was promoted to Commander. I was excited to get my next ship, yes it was on Tribble, but still excited I was. But I didn't hav eneough Dlithium? WHY does Dilithium have to tie into every facet of this game. Ilisten to interviews all the time involving the Devs and many if not all have said "the players will be rewarded for their time played".
If we were recieving free next tier ships for free when promoted before, bu t now we have to wait until we get enough Dilithium I am not being rewarded for my time played. Basically this life time player is loosing something because why? It seems like too many things are being forced to change for no reason.

Here is an idea to toss around....

The free ship deal when you are promoted should stay intact. Make those ships have 0 amount if sold and if by some chance we want to get rid of it, make it where we can have it "recycled" or "stripped" for parts that would be used to help craft other items.
Simple Dilithium = A way for cryptic to either make you grind or buy C-Points and earn them cash. At least that's the way PW works - Just go play one of their games and see.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 130
10-06-2011, 01:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shakkar View Post
Remember, you'll be able to buy all the dilithium you want for cash. It's only the in-game dilithium that's limited. So this isn't some anti-inflation idea. It's a way to force people to spend cash to get anything they want, even the subscribers.
Yes and no.

If this system works anything like Perfect World's other Cash <-> Currency model, you're not buying Dilithium for cash. You're buying other people's Dilithium for cash.

Which means that there's a quasi-finite supply, based on how much dilithium is available versus how much people are wanting to use. Effectively, this creates a bit of a disparity based on the number of people playing. At launch, there will be a surplus of dilithium. If, presumably, lots of people play, there will be a low supply of it if people sell off their dilithium to the new players, but don't bother doing the new missions to get more/the rate is excessively heavy on refinement.

So it is still, in a sense, a game economics standpoint. Because there's an internal supply and demand that revolves around the player base's ability to generate the required income. The price of the Dilithium, an in-game currency, is determined based on how many people are actively playing, allowing you to exchange it for C-Store points, a real world currency. This makes it game economics, that happens to be related to real world currency. Until they add an option to the C-Store that simply deposits a previously non-exsistant sum of Dilithium into your wallet, it's still an game economy related system.

There's also the point that, if you're a subscriber, you're getting a stipend of C-Store points as part of your subscription which, if you don't like the things on the C-Store, you can simply just use to purchase Dilithium from other players on the market. Is this more cost-efficient than just buying C-Store points as a Silver? I don't know, that's entirely dependant on whether or not you find any value in the additional 'perks' granted to you by a gold status. For Lifetimers, this is a flat gain of points which can be contributed toward your C-STore purchases/dilithium each month, so not too bad at least.

Of course, that depends on how much a C-Store point is worth, anymore. There's a little bit of patch note that talks about the change in the pricing of items in the C-Store. I suspect the cost of points for most items has been raised, to better coincide with Perfect world's pricing system, and their tendency to market PW ZEN Points -> Game Currencies. I wouldn't be surprised to start seeing things like the SFA/KA uniforms becoming double their price (from 240 to 480/500, which is about $5 a piece), which is more in-line with the way that Pefect World Entertainment likes to price their decorative items, and also making it so that costume purchases are effectively the price of your monthly stipend, part of the previously mentioned C-Store market research.

Which, I should also probably point out, is a really awful way to conduct market research. Unless every thing you add to the C-Store on Tribble right now is brand new stuff, you're not neccessarily getting an objective view onw hat people's purchasing trends are going to be. You'll see what people absolutely must buy in a limited testing environment, with a limited number of points, for whatever they decide to test at the time. But it doesn't show you the things that people would like to buy, are willing to buy, or even considering to buy. It just gives you messy sample data.

... Anyway. I veered a bit off topic, to my original post, which was just some concern of the in game economics of the Dilithium system, since it seems like you're double-gate-ing the gains of dilithium.

We need to see what the conversion rate of Ore -> Refined is, and whether or not a system where the maximum amount of Dilithium you can refine should be increased.

I'd argue that the amount of Dilithium you can refine should probably actually scale with your rank, which gives people who have access to more sources of it later in the game the ability to refine more, if they choose to do all the missions available to them, versus a lack of needing to refine as much when you start when you only have two or three available sources.
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