Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 101
10-06-2011, 08:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdangelo View Post
What will probably frustrate you all the most is that getting out one build every week is pretty much a breakneck pace for us... and many times when we get feedback, it's too late to put the fix into the coming week's release, so even when we totally agree with you that we need to change something, it may be two weeks before we get the change live on Tribble. To those of you looking at the game every day it may feel like we're not listening or changing the game in reaction to your feedback. We are, but our pace probably feels glacial to you all.
Thats fine, just tell us what changes have been made internally even if they havent made it to Tribble yet. That will at least show people you are responding to their feedback.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 102
10-06-2011, 08:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdangelo View Post
Thank you all for voicing your opinions here. We are not posting constantly, but we are indeed reading everything that is being posted.

I will be the first to admit that we do not have the balance of the economy worked out yet. The reason we are running this longer than normal test period is to get exactly the kind of feedback you are giving us, and to give us time to respond with additional changes that you can also comment on.

Are the prices wrong? Is Dilithium gated too much? It's possible, and in fact likely. We're going to read what you post, analyze the data about what people are doing in the game to see how the silent majority is voting with their actions, and then revise.

What will probably frustrate you all the most is that getting out one build every week is pretty much a breakneck pace for us... and many times when we get feedback, it's too late to put the fix into the coming week's release, so even when we totally agree with you that we need to change something, it may be two weeks before we get the change live on Tribble. To those of you looking at the game every day it may feel like we're not listening or changing the game in reaction to your feedback. We are, but our pace probably feels glacial to you all.

The whole Cryptic STO team loves this game as much as you do, and while we are trying some pretty radical changes, we will be working hard to either make the changes work, or else we'll re-evaluate and do something else.

Stephen D'Angelo
Executive Producer
Star Trek Online
Good to hear. Hoping you guys live up to the faith a lot of people have shown in you (which i'm sure you will as always).
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 103
10-06-2011, 08:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdangelo View Post
snip
what bothers me. But doesn't surprise me. Is you're not discussing the issue of the C-store price hike. Its one thing, to make us grind away to get gear. But its another to do in a manner that makes us use real money, while increasing the prices of the C-store items.

These sort of decisions are wrong. Its thievery. And its already getting you negative coverage in the geek and gaming media. You've had people just flat out state their done, their gone.

You're making all these horrible decisions, right on the break of your biggest competitors launch date. And then you drop a 'we'll tell you what we're going to do with character's on Holodeck'. Leaving us all wondering just how badly you're going to mess us over again.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 104
10-06-2011, 08:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdangelo View Post
Thank you all for voicing your opinions here. We are not posting constantly, but we are indeed reading everything that is being posted.

I will be the first to admit that we do not have the balance of the economy worked out yet. The reason we are running this longer than normal test period is to get exactly the kind of feedback you are giving us, and to give us time to respond with additional changes that you can also comment on.

Are the prices wrong? Is Dilithium gated too much? It's possible, and in fact likely. We're going to read what you post, analyze the data about what people are doing in the game to see how the silent majority is voting with their actions, and then revise.

What will probably frustrate you all the most is that getting out one build every week is pretty much a breakneck pace for us... and many times when we get feedback, it's too late to put the fix into the coming week's release, so even when we totally agree with you that we need to change something, it may be two weeks before we get the change live on Tribble. To those of you looking at the game every day it may feel like we're not listening or changing the game in reaction to your feedback. We are, but our pace probably feels glacial to you all.

The whole Cryptic STO team loves this game as much as you do, and while we are trying some pretty radical changes, we will be working hard to either make the changes work, or else we'll re-evaluate and do something else.

Stephen D'Angelo
Executive Producer
Star Trek Online
Thanks Stephen. I think a lot of us are going to need regular posts like this to remain calm; reminders that you are trying things out and that you are reading the feedback.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 105
10-06-2011, 08:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdangelo View Post
Thank you all for voicing your opinions here. We are not posting constantly, but we are indeed reading everything that is being posted.

I will be the first to admit that we do not have the balance of the economy worked out yet. The reason we are running this longer than normal test period is to get exactly the kind of feedback you are giving us, and to give us time to respond with additional changes that you can also comment on.

Are the prices wrong? Is Dilithium gated too much? It's possible, and in fact likely. We're going to read what you post, analyze the data about what people are doing in the game to see how the silent majority is voting with their actions, and then revise.

What will probably frustrate you all the most is that getting out one build every week is pretty much a breakneck pace for us... and many times when we get feedback, it's too late to put the fix into the coming week's release, so even when we totally agree with you that we need to change something, it may be two weeks before we get the change live on Tribble. To those of you looking at the game every day it may feel like we're not listening or changing the game in reaction to your feedback. We are, but our pace probably feels glacial to you all.

The whole Cryptic STO team loves this game as much as you do, and while we are trying some pretty radical changes, we will be working hard to either make the changes work, or else we'll re-evaluate and do something else.

Stephen D'Angelo
Executive Producer
Star Trek Online

thank you for responding. ether decrease prices by a factor of 10, increase the amount of dilithium we get by a factor of 10, or increase the refining rate by a factor of 10 or the game will not be playable with this economy. this dilithium economy will only be acceptable if its approximately as easy and smooth to progress and gear up as it is now on the holodeck for gold subscribers. anything less is a game that is a shadow of its former self, and a betrayal to everyone who has paid to play already.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 106
10-06-2011, 08:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trailblazer View Post
It takes a lot to get me to post, but this blog did it. Here are a few thoughts on the direction F2P is taking.

I will say that I think the DOff system is a winner, once the bugs are ironed out, particularly the branching mission concept used in colonization. I could see wanting to attempt to level a character with it alone, if it were not for the other issues that may render it annoyingly tedious if not outright impossible. With regard to hitting the balance between the casual and hardcore DOff mission players, I see it as a non-issue: if you plan and build for the latter, the former will have been taken care of in the process with a minimum of extra design consideration.

Sadly, this is the only positive change I see.

The new forced linear mission selection is fraught with problems, and I found myself never using any of the options on the main mission screen except to call in a just-finished mission. I am not interested in playing through story-line missions in a linear fashion; I'm much more concerned about playing through missions based on level than on order. Thankfully, I could still get to the original interface to do that, but I had to go through extra steps to do it.

It's difficult to express how much I dislike the dilithium implementation and the plan behind it, to the extent that it's been revealed. Giving Cryptic the benefit of the doubt and assuming that this is not just a grab for money, I honestly cannot fathom why they would want to do this or why they would imagine that I as a player would consider this to be acceptable and, more importantly, *fun*. There is, quite literally, nothing I like about it at all, and I see no potential whatsoever to redeem it. Neither can I imagine a new player liking it.

I hate grind, in any form, for any reason. There are those who don't mind it, though I can honestly say that I've never seen anyone say that they found grinding to be fun. Dailies, after the first run, are nothing more than grinding, and while I have done my share when I've had nothing better to do, I also wished very much that I had something better to do.

This release seems to be all about forcing players into certain kinds of behavior and limiting them. I am forced to play through story-line missions in order. I am forced to grind dailies just to be able to get a new ship when I achieve a new rank, and if I want to use dilithium for anything other than ships, I am forced to keep careful account of how much I have so that I don't over-spend on equipment. I am limited in which missions I can select, and there are hard limits by design on how much I can buy, much moreso than previously. All of this is *not fun*.

My recommendations are as follows:

- Revamp the new mission interface to present all level-appropriate missions, not just the next story-line one (which may well be at a higher level than I am).
- Present the story-line missions in order, but don't force me to play them in that order if for some reason I don't want to. Maybe as a vet, I love some missions but dislike others.
- Decouple the acquisition of new ships from dilithium entirely, or better yet, do away with dilithium altogether. There's nothing it offers that can't be done more simply and easily with just energy credits as they work currently.
- Give me a new ship when I reach the appropriate rank. Just do it. I already put in the time to earn it by achieving the rank. Forcing me to grind for it is absolutely the worst possible thing to do.
- As a general design philosophy, please just let me play the game as I want to play it. Don't force me or limit me artificially or arbitrarily. Guiding new players is a worthy goal, but please do it without restricting vets.

I was actually upset enough by what was said in this blog that I cancelled the in-progress download of the patch and very nearly deleted the Tribble test installation as well. I may rethink this a bit later, or not. How Cryptic responds, not just to this message but to all of those written by concerned players, will likely dictate not only whether I choose to continue with the test, but whether I leave the game indefinitely.

Edit for Stephen's last post: Please note that I, for one, have no problem with the development cycle. My only hope is that these concerns will be addressed, as they are game-breakers for me. In any event, I do appreciate the sentiment in your reply.

This works for me, especially the bullet points I highlighted. #1 on my list has to be "Give me a new ship when I reach the appropriate rank. Just do it. I already put in the time to earn it by achieving the rank. Forcing me to grind for it is absolutely the worst possible thing to do.".
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 107
10-06-2011, 08:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdangelo View Post
What will probably frustrate you all the most is that getting out one build every week is pretty much a breakneck pace for us... and many times when we get feedback, it's too late to put the fix into the coming week's release, so even when we totally agree with you that we need to change something, it may be two weeks before we get the change live on Tribble. To those of you looking at the game every day it may feel like we're not listening or changing the game in reaction to your feedback. We are, but our pace probably feels glacial to you all.

The whole Cryptic STO team loves this game as much as you do, and while we are trying some pretty radical changes, we will be working hard to either make the changes work, or else we'll re-evaluate and do something else.

Stephen D'Angelo
Executive Producer
Star Trek Online
I get that we don't see changes as often as we'd like to, and I think we all understand that it takes time to program and fix things. However, it would be helpful for a list of things that are known and are being worked on (like Tribble Engineering Reports) so that we can at least see that things are getting worked on. That also then allows us to ask questions about it instead of ranting and posting our displeasure on the forums. Many times, this gaming community has come up with amazing ideas when we've discussed topics like this. I'm sure some of our bitterness is that we were pretty much left in the dark about all of this during the initial planning and development steps and even through to the server builds, whereas the past, we've been consulted in Tribble/Red Shirt during the course of testing. Let's stop the awkward surprise party-like atmosphere and get down to a collaborative environment. We are all in this game together - that is one of the things I have cherished about STO is the openness of the Dev Team and their willingness to talk to us. Let's use that strength!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 108
10-06-2011, 09:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdangelo View Post
*snip*
Well, this answers my call for communication, so I thank you. My gut still feels off, but if this is in fact a work in progress, then at least I can give you until F2P hits Holodeck to make my final judgement.

I would parrot those above me though in continuing to call for open communication on these things; we know they can't be changed on a moment's notice, but at least let us know that you've seen and understood our concerns and that they will be addressed.

Tribble Engineering reports would be amazing, though I would understand if there wasn't the time to write up everything in that particular format. In the very least I would like to see an active hand in the threads on these matters, much like CapnLogan and Heretic's feedback on various subjects. My respect for them as developers is vast due to the fact that they take the time to simply touch base.

It helps you guys out as much as it keeps out heads from blowing like a locomotive's whistle.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 109
10-06-2011, 09:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdangelo View Post
Thank you all for voicing your opinions here. We are not posting constantly, but we are indeed reading everything that is being posted.

I will be the first to admit that we do not have the balance of the economy worked out yet. The reason we are running this longer than normal test period is to get exactly the kind of feedback you are giving us, and to give us time to respond with additional changes that you can also comment on.

Are the prices wrong? Is Dilithium gated too much? It's possible, and in fact likely. We're going to read what you post, analyze the data about what people are doing in the game to see how the silent majority is voting with their actions, and then revise.

What will probably frustrate you all the most is that getting out one build every week is pretty much a breakneck pace for us... and many times when we get feedback, it's too late to put the fix into the coming week's release, so even when we totally agree with you that we need to change something, it may be two weeks before we get the change live on Tribble. To those of you looking at the game every day it may feel like we're not listening or changing the game in reaction to your feedback. We are, but our pace probably feels glacial to you all.

The whole Cryptic STO team loves this game as much as you do, and while we are trying some pretty radical changes, we will be working hard to either make the changes work, or else we'll re-evaluate and do something else.

Stephen D'Angelo
Executive Producer
Star Trek Online
Mr. D'Angelo it is extreme frustrating in only getting we are listening to your feedback. But when looking at the only real information you are giving out (being the build in Tribble) and looking at the numbers. The sheer apparent insanity cause a great deal of concern in player. Granted we have have been spoiled by Daniel Stahl openness on t he former. And I do understand you want to be more an engineer than spokesman. But we need something more in between. WE the player would like some feedback of our own. The weekly are builds are too little, too late as well.

And when I mean apparent insanity of the number, I did comse back fo the napkin calculations of what it takes to outfit a base Tier 5 ship with Mk XI Purple gear. The total was 476 days. IT doesn't matter how much time a player puts into the game. That time can't be speed up except with Refining Dilithium bonuses In the end I I ask myself did anyone at Cryptic do even that simple thing?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 110
10-06-2011, 09:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The.Grand.Nagus View Post
Thats fine, just tell us what changes have been made internally even if they havent made it to Tribble yet. That will at least show people you are responding to their feedback.
We've had our disagreements in the past, agreements too, but in this I couldn't agree with you more if I had typed those words myself.

Its not like things need to be hush hush.

When I need to know things from my development team, I send them an IM every now and them, summarize what I learn and them brief my own implementation team.

All they really need to do is CC us.

Ha!
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