Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 51
10-09-2011, 06:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cormoran View Post
So one other person was wrong too, logical though is not based on a democracy, again you're using only the information that suits you.

You also only wish to focus on what can be easily used to continue an argument since you never bothered to even acknowledge my point, which pertains more to this threads actual topic, on the possibilites of lifers spending more than freeplayers and vice versa.

Honestly, i'm done with this, i feel too sorry for you to keep digging at you like this. Being such an abrasive person whilst taking the victim route the second someone stands up to it isn't really an existance to be proud of, whether online or not. You may continue to attempt to berate and argue if you wish, it will only show other people what sort of a person you are.

Such a shame.
You have made no points in this thread that have been worthy of discussion, you have simply made a very poor attempt to discredit me and now others in this thead.

I'm so glad YOU have allowed me to continue to defend myself, I feel honoured that you have allowed me this much, for that I thankyou. I hope it does show people what kind of person I am, I will not be belittled by anyone.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 52
10-09-2011, 06:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cormoran View Post
It being a response to something someone else said has absolutely no bearing on that. Regardless of that quote his response was that they, as a lifer (made abundantly clear from his 'you don't pay' comment), have no rights. He's had this attitude towards lifers for some time now, you and i are nothing but leeches to him.
Of course it has a bearing, he was telling the other guy he doesn't have a right to demand more just because he's a lifer that seems to think he's owed something.
As for whether he thinks I'm a leech, I don't really care. I've never seen him in game and likely never will but that doesn't make him any less wrong; when your subs paid off, if you buy nothing in the CStore you're nothing more than a drain on resources. Luckily for me (well, Cryptic) I spend a fortune in the CStore so it's a non issue.

Quote:
I'm not the one twisting your words, you are. You're now backtracking on what you said previously in the hope that it won't sound as bad as you originally made it sound now that you've been called out on it.

I'm not surprised you say you have no idea, again, my feelings told me you'd feign ignorance on that. I won't indulge that sort of attitude.
I'm still not seeing the back tracking, the comment that seems to keep being quoted was directed at someone who said;

Quote:
More on the way hasn't happened. So yea, us lifetimers, have a damn good right to request "More on the way!"
All he did was tell him he doesn't have the right to demand anything just because he's a lifer. Was it badly worded? Possibly, but the meaning was pretty clear to me and can't see why there's such a fuss over this.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 53
10-09-2011, 11:41 PM
absolutely, we lifers should definitely get some perks for paying before the game launched and i for one would love some special DOFFs a redone captains table, a transwarp directly TO the captain's table, a pet, gold or black armor plating for ships hulls in costume, purple nacelles or some other color that will set our ships apart. cmon cryp you guys can do better then this when it comes to rewarding the people who've been with you the longest.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 54
10-10-2011, 12:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by FurQue
Well, out of all my friends in the game, of that which subscribe, I don't know any, whom have unsubscribed for more than a single month. So I don't buy your theory on people unsubscribing for months on end.

How is it logical to expect more from the game when you have "definitely" paid less than me? Every month I sub for right now, I'm paying more and more than "most" LTS members.

How can you state that there will be no break even point for LTS? Have you even seen the restrictions upon silver accounts? Only just recently, and I mean in the last day or two have they changed their minds on allowing silvers to hold more than 4 BOFF's. Thats right, as a silver member, you wouldn't of been allowed to even fill yours ship slots, anyway, thats been fixed now. But still, you WILL break even, if you were to buy right now, there WILL be a break even point. If you want to be silly, and claim some stupid 6 month sabbatical in the middle east, then fine, it doesn't matter, point is, there will be a break even point, the only way there wouldnt be is if you simply stop playing permanently before you broke even. Which, i think you'll agree, is extremely unlikely.

So, I'll ask again.

Why should you, a LTS who has provided less money to the game than me (assuming we boith have paid the same in the c-store, i mean why would that be different?), the difference getting bigger every month, and will continue to do so, get something more than me?

That makes no sense at all.

LTS is a very very bad business decision, its basically guaranteeing that the service will do exactly what it has done, and move to FTP. Esp considering the change of ownership, most of the lts sub money would have been absorbed by Atari, very little if anything would have been retained for development, as we can clearly see. So cryptic, once sold, would have been left with a load of "free loaders" from their prospective. We can see what a massive difference PW has already made to this game, cryptic are working hard again, things are happening, sure, things are still going wrong, but its a mmo, its a living breathing entity. Its not always going to be smooth, and most of us understand that. Point is, the "cash" which LTS'ers injected and think saved STO right at its birth, is a misplaced theory. It simply got taken away by Atari and was never seen again. Now cryptic is left with the aftermath, which is a bunch of "free loading" (from their prospective) players, who not only get gold for free, but also get C-Store points for free.

It makes no sense to spend extra resources on keeping these people happy, as the game will NEVER see a return of investment for it. Just be happy with your permagold status. The rest of us will be paying for it.

The worst kind of player in this game for cryptic is an LTS player, you expect more and more, but provide nothing in return.
That may be your experience, but it is not my personal experience nor that of quite a few people that I know. You're likely one of those players in this "play all day, every day" (this is not a bad thing and shouldn't be taken as offensive, as it was not intended that way) group, where people spend all their time playing. Most people have real life obligations, not to mention moods that change month to month -- day to day based on what they like and dislike at that current point in time.

Yes, I've paid less than you, but per month that I've played I've *DEFINITELY* payed way more than you. I've paid over 30$ for every month I've played, seeing as I have yet to even be in this game for a year. Seeing as this game will be going F2P, I will be receiving virtually nothing as compensation (seeing as 400 Cryptic points a month will buy me one ship, every 5 months)... I'm sorry, but you're blinded by your lack of ability to see things across the isle. I know what it's like to be a monthly subber, I also know what it's like to a LTS, and as an LTS, I feel I've wasted money on a game I wouldn't really have had to.

Depends on how you define "break even", from my point of view I HAD to pay for the game to even play it. With restricted access, I wouldn't even care, I just would play4free, therefore I'd be 300 dollars more rich. So while I may eventually break even in your eyes, that deal that I paid for, that I made (Access to a non-accessible game unless payed for, via paying myself), is gone. I can never break even in my eyes, since I payed for access to a game that is now free to access (although somewhat limited, slightly), it's still not enough incentive to make me feel as though I've gotten my money's worth.

Because I made a larger up-front investment into a game which could shut down at any moment for all we know. You were not at risk, paying monthly, you could cancel at any time, avoiding further loss. See, while in the long term you may provide more for the game, my initial up front investment was a risk, you had no risk in your investment therefore you didn't earn anything extra, which by virtue of risk I did. Also I've payed about as much as you have (assuming you've been playing for 2 years, which has the game even been out that long?) for the 1 year (not even) I've been playing; So is the case with some (a lot, in fact) of LTS.

No see, you don't understand how this type of business works. While in the long run yes, it loses money (which I'm about to explain, it actually doesn't). It allows this up front cash to be immediately redistributed into dishing out content. A good business model (in my humble opinion), will have a LTS up front, for immediate cash ready to be re-invested into the game for greater profit in the long run. By making a better game, you ensure more renewing of subscriptions and a lot more new subs from people who just try the game via a demo of a sorts. If I were to offer you 1 million dollars up front cash, right now, or 2 million spread out given to you monthly throughout your life, you'd take the first one. Because with that 1 million, you'd be able to invest into really whatever you wanted to invest into to make yourself money, whether that be your own business, whatever it is you want. See, on the surface it seems like as you say "That just hurts the game in the long run", but those who know business can tell you that if managed properly, an up front investment will in the end help more than it hurts, by allowing additional revenue to be generated, possibly out-doing what you lost by offering these LTS as opposed to making it purely sub based. Not to mention some people won't pay (like myself) at all without a LTS option.

Also, we're providing more for the game than the F2P people, because of our status as P2P players it can be assumed that we were able to pay at one point and may pay again at one point for C-Points. So we are in fact, better on the game that F2P players, because we at least may pay for C-Points.

You need to stop treating us like we're some kind of plague, we're human beings who risked quite a bit of money, and in some cases, the risk didn't pay off, like mine. You'd have to play for 20 months for it to pay off (not taking into account small discounts for ordering over 1 month at a time, which should be considered), which again, has this game even been out for 20 months? Only people who subbed at the VERY START have broken even.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 55
10-10-2011, 05:52 AM
You bought an LTS in Jan this year and you think you can give me lessons in business?

All this money everyone thinks the preorder LTS's provided to boost early development is lies. The game did not have a good start, there was no flood of content in the first 2-3 months like people seem to suggest. I really do think that all that "investment" was simply taken back to base by Atari.

While I have some sympathy for late LTS buyers, be rest assured, this game will NOT be dying before you have a return on your investment. Its a star trek game, and historically, star trek games hang around for years longer than they should, simply because its trek.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 56
10-10-2011, 06:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by FurQue
Why do LTS's moan about getting something new, you've had your stuff, and you still get gold for free, why do the devs ever need to give you anything more? Why do you deserve anything more? Everyone who bought a LTS pre-release has more than broken even now, as soon as you break even, you are actually worse to have in the game than a silver player. Why should that be rewarded?
Guess what:?

The OFFICIAL WEBSITE STATES for LTS that MORE IS ON THE WAY. It is a SELLING point.

If you don't like lifers asking for more, then by god, complain to the people who STATE on their website that MORE IS ON THE WAY.

DON'T GRIPE AT LIFERS WHO ONLY WANT THE MORE THAT IS PROMISED THEM.

You know who I am tired of? People who complain about something they obviously know nothing about.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 57
10-10-2011, 06:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeneralJumper1
All the lifers have left are the Liberated Borg Captain and the not paying monthly anymore, how about some Liberated Borg Doffs to got with the new F2P? Would be one new thing that can be added, it does say "More on the way!" on the Commit for life page, yet we haven't seen or gotten anything new, just things being given to Veteran rewards.

http://www.startrekonline.com/lifetime
I like the idea, but why not make it available to all (former) gold members instead? It'd be a nice little reward for all those people that support(ed) Cryptic by paying for a subscription.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 58
10-10-2011, 06:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by FurQue
You bought an LTS in Jan this year and you think you can give me lessons in business?

All this money everyone thinks the preorder LTS's provided to boost early development is lies. The game did not have a good start, there was no flood of content in the first 2-3 months like people seem to suggest. I really do think that all that "investment" was simply taken back to base by Atari.

While I have some sympathy for late LTS buyers, be rest assured, this game will NOT be dying before you have a return on your investment. Its a star trek game, and historically, star trek games hang around for years longer than they should, simply because its trek.
Your sympathy is unnecessary. LTS gets the whole game, with exclusives, and we only had to pay the value of 18 months up front. Since most of the subscribers are going to stop paying, then the only people left in gold will be LTS. We have many reasons to appreciate our purchase.

I'm very happy with my purchase. As are almost all of the LTS I know.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 59
10-10-2011, 06:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jentai View Post
It's not his fault that i get overly agitated when people are "less then nice". that falls on me, and before the conversation even got to page 3 i had already reported myself stating that i had gone too far cus i just couldn't help it......not to say i think he has the right of things, but i did get more agitated then was warranted.

I do agree with him that lifers don't need any more SPECIAL treatment, i havn't asked for anything extra for lifers. And agree that perhaps a good go around is to in fact have 3 teirs of players, Silver, Lifers, Subbed......if ou have a life time you get basically what they are offering now, and if they REALLY wanted subs to exist they could make a third teir that has some extra goodies for those that want to pay for a monthly sub. If it warranted the $15 sub i'd more then likly resub again to help support the game but i'm not going to do so for free. IF this is all that will be (lifers/sub and silver) then i will support the game by purhcasing cstore points as i have continued to do.

For the comments that went too far i apologize, but i will not apologize about disagreeing with your stance on things. We can't all get along but i can TRY to be more civil.
I disagree, since the website boldy states that MORE ON THE WAY.

If you don't think we deserve special, you can give up your 'more on the way' to me when it gets here.

Thanks!

P.S. Love your liberated borg doff idea, it is absolutely brilliant!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 60
10-10-2011, 07:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nishka
I like the idea, but why not make it available to all (former) gold members instead? It'd be a nice little reward for all those people that support(ed) Cryptic by paying for a subscription.
Because Gold Members are constantly getting new things, the LTS was promised new things just for us and that has happened and it would go with the Liberated Borg Captain.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Superluminous
P.S. Love your liberated borg doff idea, it is absolutely brilliant!
Thanks
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