Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 21
10-10-2011, 09:25 AM
The way it seems, just stop asking or act like you hate the idea and then they will change it.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 22
10-10-2011, 10:00 AM
100% support this. I hate that it addresses me as Vice Admiral. Captain for life!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 23
10-10-2011, 12:33 PM
I am all for reworking how ranks are done.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 24
10-10-2011, 12:54 PM
This is similar to what I've been calling for (the separation of rank and skill level) since pre-launch. The game that we play from level 1 - 51 is a "Captain" game, where we have a ship and crew, and that is our primary concern.

Flag Officers (Generals and Admirals) have a much broader scope of command, and really, being strapped to one (or any) ship and crew is kind of beneath them. Their roles are to preside over theatres. When they do serve on a flagship, it's just a temporary mobile field office for them (that's all a flagship is... a ship with a flag officer on board). They command the fleet, squadron, or battlegroup, but they're not in direct command of the ship they're sitting on (and if they are, something is seriously wrong because you now have a flag officer concerning themselves with the operation of a single ship instead of focusing on the bigger picture).

But the biggest annoyance is not that we are able to get to Admiral, but that so LITTLE time is spent as an actual CAPTAIN. It just flies by. 51 levels and only 10 of those spent as an actual, identified by the game, Captain. And then it's gone. After that, and into the remaining time we play on that toon, it will be referred to by the game as an Admiral, whether or not that's the role we play.



I'm also not a fan of Fleet Leaders calling themselves Admirals just because they got a bunch of players together (and yes, I'm a Fleet Leader too), but that's another layer of incongruity layered on top of the one we already have with ranks and skill levels.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 25
10-10-2011, 02:35 PM
I absolutely agree. Not every player should be an admiral. I would rather, though, that they retooled it so that fleet commanders can be admirals; that makes sense. Players not in a fleet should be capped at captain, however. It's not even an RP issue - it's about getting even the most basic details of Star Trek right, and Starfleet doesn't have thousands of admirals running around the galaxy taking orders from lieutenants and commanders who don't even have the right number of pips on their uniforms. It's about not having sloppy work on your live server for around two years now, and continuing to ignore it.

I would like to take it a step further, though - I want boff ability unlocks to be uncoupled from their rank. I don't want to have to promote four boffs to commander just to get their full abilities unlocked. Each ship gets one captain and one commander. The rest can be up to lieutenant commander, but that's it.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 26
10-10-2011, 02:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leviathan99
I'm noticing a lot of changes to rank-ups, including the fact that we now get promoted without spending skillpoints.

I think now is the time to go back to what a lot of us said since Beta:

Rename the max rank from Vice Admiral 1 to Captain 21.

I'm NOT suggesting that Admiral be unobtainable but I think it should be a NON-rank based accolade title, maybe for maxing out the duty officer system.

There are 12 DO categories, right? Make it so that completing any 4 unlocks the Rear Admiral title and pips, completing any 8 unlocks the Vice Admiral title and pips, and completing all 12 unlocks the Fleet Admiral title and pips. The DO system tests your ability as a paper pusher and delegator and makes more sense as the means to progress your Captain sideways into the admiralty rather than as a field commission rank up.

Likewise, other advancements could be done through other progression systems.

On DS9, we saw Starfleet Intelligence had Deputy Directors and Directors with unique pips. This could be the post-Captain PvP progression.

In turn, maybe Fleet Actions, STFs, and Fleet Activity take you down a Fleet Captain -> Commodore path.

And then, maybe crafting could lead you through a special Corps of Engineers progression with pips based on the Marquis pips from Voyager and O'Brien's special badge on DS9, as both the Voyager Marquis and O'Brien were exemplary and unorthodox engineers in large part who could have become synonymous with great engineering.

But your rank in game mechanics terms would be Captain. This other stuff would be stacked on top of that based on what you are in addition to being a Captain, as opposed to a linear rank-up. (Which fits with the shows, where Admiral wasn't really treated so much as a progression so much as it was a Captain who was also a skilled bureaucrat, with a chain of command that almost never treated Admirals as being ABOVE Captains.)
Admiral ranks should be assigned via a fleet. So only fleet leadership can assign you Admiral ranks. Other than that I like the OPs general idea. Make everyone a Captain.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 27
10-10-2011, 03:31 PM
I have come to accept the rank structure as it is. I would rather not see ranks higher than captain be essentially accolade titles.

For over a year, I have been lobbying for a system similar to the DOff system, but with ships under your command, rather than individual officers. You would send the ships out on missions, off screen, and success would be determined based on how well the ship was equipped and crewed. The DOff system really has done a better job of this than I would have imagined possible in the STO engine.

The best advancement for Admirals would be to add these ships as BO's in space. For some missions, not all, we should be accompanied by the ships under our command. It would help make us more like Admirals and change the game play style. As it stands today, there is little difference in impact or scope between Lieutenant or Vice Admiral. You still do the same galaxy saving or flower scanning missions at all levels.

I think new game play features need to be added that differentiate between Captain and Admiral. I would rather not see simple accolades tied to existing features.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 28
10-10-2011, 05:59 PM
[quote=TantalusOmega]I absolutely agree. Not every player should be an admiral. I would rather, though, that they retooled it so that fleet commanders can be admirals; that makes sense. Players not in a fleet should be capped at captain, however. It's not even an RP issue - it's about getting even the most basic details of Star Trek right, and Starfleet doesn't have thousands of admirals running around the galaxy taking orders from lieutenants and commanders who don't even have the right number of pips on their uniforms. It's about not having sloppy work on your live server for around two years now, and continuing to ignore it.

I would like to take it a step further, though - I want boff ability unlocks to be uncoupled from their rank. I don't want to have to promote four boffs to commander just to get their full abilities unlocked. Each ship gets one captain and one commander. The rest can be up to lieutenant commander, but that's it.[/QUOTE]

USS Enterprise, NCC-1701-A

Captain James T. Krik (commanding officer)
Captain Spock (First officer/science officer)
Commander Leonard McCoy (CMO)
Captain Montgomery Scott (Chief Engineer)
Commander Hikaru Sulu (Chief Helmsman)
Commander Pavel Chekov (Head Navigator)
Command Nyota Uhura (Communications officer)

USS Enterprise, NCC1701-D

Captain Jean-Luc Picard (commanding officer)
Commander William Thomas Riker (First officer)
Lt. Commander Data (Chief of Operations/Science officer)
Lt. Commander Geordi La Forge (Chief Engineer)
Lt. Commander Worf (Chief of Security)
Commander Beverly Crusher (CMO)
Commander Deanna Troi (Counselor)

The D had a Captain and 3 commanders. The A had three Captains and 4 commanders. The only thing they had with every other ship in federation history is that they had *1* commanding officer. Also why I say we should get to promote our BOffs to Captain. That's another issue, the issue here is that I support rearranging the ranks just as the OP described. Lets those that want to be an Admiral get it but doing the DOff system, let the rest of us be the Captains we were meant to be. And for the record, there seemed to be one Adm in Starfleet that relished being an Admiral and that's Janeway. She loved it so much that she convinced someone in Starfleet to make her an Admiral after losing her first ship after being promoted to Captain. Stupid Janeway!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 29
10-10-2011, 07:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tilarium View Post

USS Enterprise, NCC1701-D

Captain Jean-Luc Picard (commanding officer)
Commander William Thomas Riker (First officer)
Lt. Commander Data (Chief of Operations/Science officer)
Lt. Commander Geordi La Forge (Chief Engineer)
Lt. Commander Worf (Chief of Security)
Commander Beverly Crusher (CMO)
Commander Deanna Troi (Counselor)

The D had a Captain and 3 commanders. The A had three Captains and 4 commanders. The only thing they had with every other ship in federation history is that they had *1* commanding officer. Also why I say we should get to promote our BOffs to Captain. That's another issue, the issue here is that I support rearranging the ranks just as the OP described. Lets those that want to be an Admiral get it but doing the DOff system, let the rest of us be the Captains we were meant to be. And for the record, there seemed to be one Adm in Starfleet that relished being an Admiral and that's Janeway. She loved it so much that she convinced someone in Starfleet to make her an Admiral after losing her first ship after being promoted to Captain. Stupid Janeway!
Hrm...fair enough. I had always thought Troi and Crusher were lieutenant commanders (with Troi being promoted to lt cmdr after her test) and were just simply referred to as 'commanders' as they often did in the show, but Memory Alpha says otherwise (and if you want to get downright technical about it - Worf was just a lieutenant while he was aboard the Enterprise D until right before it got blown up - should never have promoted the Klingon ). Okay then, I disagree with the way canon does it! I don't like situations where a lower ranking officer can give orders to a higher ranking one - i.e. Data was second officer on the Enterprise D, but both Dr. Crusher and Counselor Troi outranked him by the latter half of the show. Situations like that shouldn't happen, imo, but that's beside the point of this thread.

As for the TOS era - I don't count any of that stuff; it's all so inconsistent with everything that you can't make heads or tails of any of it so I don't bother trying.

Still, not all of a ship's senior staff will be a commander, yet that is exactly what STO forces us to do if we want our boffs to be fully effective on the ground - and in some cases, in space. So, my request to uncouple boff abilities from rank stands!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 30
10-10-2011, 07:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TantalusOmega
Hrm...fair enough. I had always thought Troi and Crusher were lieutenant commanders (with Troi being promoted to lt cmdr after her test) and were just simply referred to as 'commanders' as they often did in the show, but Memory Alpha says otherwise (and if you want to get downright technical about it - Worf was just a lieutenant while he was aboard the Enterprise D until right before it got blown up - should never have promoted the Klingon ). Okay then, I disagree with the way canon does it! I don't like situations where a lower ranking officer can give orders to a higher ranking one - i.e. Data was second officer on the Enterprise D, but both Dr. Crusher and Counselor Troi outranked him by the latter half of the show. Situations like that shouldn't happen, imo, but that's beside the point of this thread.

As for the TOS era - I don't count any of that stuff; it's all so inconsistent with everything that you can't make heads or tails of any of it so I don't bother trying.

Still, not all of a ship's senior staff will be a commander, yet that is exactly what STO forces us to do if we want our boffs to be fully effective on the ground - and in some cases, in space. So, my request to uncouple boff abilities from rank stands!
Lower ranking officers have the ability to give orders to higher ranking officers when that lower ranking officer is the officer in command or at a higher tier of the command structure. This is true even in the real navy. It doesn't OFTEN happen, but it CAN happen. Typically when an officer reaches a particular position within the command tier, they have attained sufficient rank to at least equal all officers beneath them and if they have not then they are promoted a rank. But, still, like I said, it CAN happen even in the real navy. (typically it only happens with medical personnel, such as in this case both Troi and Crusher outranking Data but both being medical personnel [doctor and counselor] they are not in the direct chain of command)
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 05:05 AM.