Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 11
10-09-2011, 09:02 PM
A question, is it true that Cryptic will not sell dilithium in the C-store direct? The only way to "Buy" dilithium for CP is to first buy the CP, then hop on the dilithium exchange?

Second, how exactly does 8k/day limit stop gold farmers? They will just make more accounts. Sure it gets less efficient but there's no real limit on how much dilithium a *person* can produce in a day, only a *character* or an *account*.

Third, with the 8k/day limit, and the high cost of items (which is out-of-this-world ridiculous right now, but probably will get revised to "still really high but at least not as bad as it was" before F2P goes live) dilithium will be really scarce. People will be motivated to hoard all their daily dilithium for their own gear purchases, thus pricing for dilithium on the exchange will be terrible. Hundreds and hundreds of CP for a small amount of dilithium, because it is so precious a resource. Dilithium will be seen as too valuable and nobody will sell it for a realistic price that others are willing to pay. Thus the economy will stop before it even gets started.

Ironically, it seems like the only real solution to the dilithium scarcity issue will be... gold farmers, lots of people out there in the stars grinding out and refining the dilithium ore but not actually interested in using it themselves except to sell it because they aren't interested in actually playing the game. The people Cryptic are trying to keep out of the game to start with.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 12
10-09-2011, 09:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormnnorm
A question, is it true that Cryptic will not sell dilithium in the C-store direct? The only way to "Buy" dilithium for CP is to first buy the CP, then hop on the dilithium exchange?

Second, how exactly does 8k/day limit stop gold farmers? They will just make more accounts. Sure it gets less efficient but there's no real limit on how much dilithium a *person* can produce in a day, only a *character* or an *account*.

Third, with the 8k/day limit, and the high cost of items (which is out-of-this-world ridiculous right now, but probably will get revised to "still really high but at least not as bad as it was" before F2P goes live) dilithium will be really scarce. People will be motivated to hoard all their daily dilithium for their own gear purchases, thus pricing for dilithium on the exchange will be terrible. Hundreds and hundreds of CP for a small amount of dilithium, because it is so precious a resource. Dilithium will be seen as too valuable and nobody will sell it for a realistic price that others are willing to pay. Thus the economy will stop before it even gets started.

Ironically, it seems like the only real solution to the dilithium scarcity issue will be... gold farmers, lots of people out there in the stars grinding out and refining the dilithium ore but not actually interested in using it themselves except to sell it because they aren't interested in actually playing the game. The people Cryptic are trying to keep out of the game to start with.
Yet another reason the exchange should be scrapped as a horrible idea...
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 13
10-09-2011, 09:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormnnorm
Second, how exactly does 8k/day limit stop gold farmers? They will just make more accounts. Sure it gets less efficient but there's no real limit on how much dilithium a *person* can produce in a day, only a *character* or an *account*.
The only thing they can "sell" DL for is C-Points; and the exchange of $$$ -> C-Points only goes one way. I guess it's possible that farmers could set up an account, load it with 10,000 C-Points, and then sell it for cash on e-Bay. But the market for transactions at that level is much smaller than for spot gold sold freely in varying amounts to players with existing accounts.

And there is a hard cap on the real life $$$ value of an account loaded with 10,000 C-Points; basically it's $311.50 ($1 less than what it would cost a player to just buy the points themselves). Depending on how long it takes to farm 10K C-Points, farmers may or may not be able to do it profitably (and I suspect not). And the C-Points still get sunk at some point into actual Cryptic merchandise. Even if the $$$ change hands a few times, they still go into Cryptic's pocket in the end.

Even worse for the farmer; this is a one-time sale for a farmer to that customer; once the C-Points are gone, the person who bought the account can't get more without buying another whole account; so farmers can never serve people with established accounts who want to put real-life $$$ into the game to buy gear on an ongoing basis (which is always going to be basically 95% of the potential market or more).

There is also the fact that 95% of players won't even bother with third parties at all; there is always the risk of getting scammed, or getting your account banned for violating the EULA, and most people won't bother if they can just go through Cryptic's channel and get their DL simply and easily, at a known rate, with no risk of scamming. Because gold farmers always have to sell at a large discount to entice people to take the risk of dealing with them, there is even less chance they can turn a profit, or find a large enough market to sustain an operation.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 14
10-09-2011, 09:53 PM
I just want to say that I will be selling my monthly stipend of C-Store points when the new system goes live.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 15
10-09-2011, 09:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by machocyclone View Post
I just want to say that I will be selling my monthly stipend of C-Store points when the new system goes live.
How do you plan to do this?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 16
10-09-2011, 10:01 PM
When the folks at STOked interviewed Deanglo, he said that you will be able to sell your monthly stipend of Cryptic points for dilithium. I have no need for the points as I have everything I want from the store. So I will sell my Cryptic points for dilithium.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 17
10-09-2011, 10:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by machocyclone View Post
When the folks at STOked interviewed Deanglo, he said that you will be able to sell your monthly stipend of Cryptic points for dilithium. I have no need for the points as I have everything I want from the store. So I will sell my Cryptic points for dilithium.
Well that's not really selling. Then you just have DL; so you converted one form of game currency into another. You're also certainly not going to get much DL for 400 points ($5 worth). If the refinement cap on Live is of the same order of magnitude as the current 8K, you'll probably have enough to buy about 1/10th of one Mk X ship weapon.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 18
10-09-2011, 10:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by trekbaby9000 View Post
I've been reading about the whole dillithium thing for a while now, but it never really hit home until I read this post from another thread:



And that last sentence just sums it up perfectly. This whole dillithium thing is just so they can essentially sell in game currency using the C-store. I know F2P games are about making money and usually sell items people want in the game store, but actual in game currency? Are any other F2P games doing this? Is this really what STO has degenerated into?
Most are and a number of P2P games as well.

The only thing inherently wrong with currency selling is that a third party does it, potentially out of a sweatshop.

Diablo III isn't even an MMO and you can sell items for cash, officially sanctioned by Blizzard.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 19
10-09-2011, 10:58 PM
Why are you guys surprised buy this!! When a company gets bought out by another company, its good to look at what the new parent company business model is... To see where STO is going its good to look @ Champions Online and other Perfect World Games...

If stuff gets moved from the full game now and put on the C-store, i won't be surprise. If they make us Grind for new Dilithium but put Dilithium ORE Pack on the C-Store i won't be surprise. If they also put an option to increase the amount of Refined Dilithium per day, again i won't be surprise...

All the stuff that is been done to convert STO to F2P is normal in Perfect WORLD Entertainment Games. CBS probably won't so much intervene because they probably will get a cut too, seeing it there license...
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 20
10-09-2011, 11:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dre256 View Post
Why are you guys surprised buy this!! When a company gets bought out by another company, its good to look at what the new parent company business model is... To see where STO is going its good to look @ Champions Online and other Perfect World Games...

If stuff gets moved from the full game now and put on the C-store, i won't be surprise. If they make us Grind for new Dilithium but put Dilithium ORE Pack on the C-Store i won't be surprise. If they also put an option to increase the amount of Refined Dilithium per day, again i won't be surprise...

All the stuff that is been done to convert STO to F2P is normal in Perfect WORLD Entertainment Games. CBS probably won't so much intervene because they probably will get a cut too, seeing it there license...
It's in CBS best interest to make sure that the Star Trek IP isn't ruined, and they know it. They'll never be able to make any new Star Trek anything if they let Cryptic continue down the path of pure greed.
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