Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 21
10-09-2011, 11:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormnnorm
Ironically, it seems like the only real solution to the dilithium scarcity issue will be... gold farmers, lots of people out there in the stars grinding out and refining the dilithium ore but not actually interested in using it themselves except to sell it because they aren't interested in actually playing the game. The people Cryptic are trying to keep out of the game to start with.
Uh. Why would you want to keep goldfarmers out of the game if you can make them work for you and you're the one pocketing the cash, not them?

Half the point and fun of an MMO IS BEING a goldfarmer. The problem is with people doing it for profit in a way that works against a game's planned economy and encourages shady behavior.

Legitimizing it and making it a non-profit activity pursued by players who like grinding is a good thing.

I'm not onboard with the exact breakdown of ship pricing and lack of Gold features but I absolutely support integrating C-Store and in-game economies and implementing more grind features. We're not even talking EQ level grinds when the dust settles (I hope) but there's no point in playing daily if you aren't grinding for something.

Aside from just fun, what are you playing FOR? What are you trying to ACQUIRE by playing? STO is at least moving towards answering these questions.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 22
10-09-2011, 11:31 PM
I never really understood all this till I read the OPs Nagus quote, and now it makes perfect sense. I know it costs money to run a game like this, but it seems the majority of everything they are adding (even the DOFF system with it's C-Store bundles) is designed to entice even more money out the player. If they are restricting in game currency, I can now see why they are adding C-Store purchasable ships at every level and rank too.

Oh well, if that's the direction in which we are headed, so be it, but it does give me some cause for concern, and it does make the advertised term "free to play" a cruel way to entice people into a system that is designed to drag as much money from them as possible.

At least with a subscription based system, it is honest and open about the cost to play. Sadly, it sounds as though it's going out of fashion, but I don't think I can blame Cryptic for this, or punish them for it, I guess it's just the direction on-line gaming is headed.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 23
10-10-2011, 12:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leviathan99
Legitimizing it and making it a non-profit activity pursued by players who like grinding is a good thing.

I'm not onboard with the exact breakdown of ship pricing and lack of Gold features but I absolutely support integrating C-Store and in-game economies and implementing more grind features. We're not even talking EQ level grinds when the dust settles (I hope) but there's no point in playing daily if you aren't grinding for something.

Aside from just fun, what are you playing FOR? What are you trying to ACQUIRE by playing? STO is at least moving towards answering these questions.
Some grinding is good, but when it takes over two weeks to grind for a single ship weapon (of which you can mount 6-8), people will get fatigued and decide that it's not worth the effort. Most items should not take more than a few days apiece to get--especially those items that you are going to out-level within a week or two anyway (as will happen with any equipment below Mk IX). In the current build, the cost/benefit balance is tilted too far towards the cost side, to the point that many items are passed up as being not worthwhile.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 24
10-10-2011, 12:15 AM
Below are a couple threads on the PWI forums. One has some questions about gold trading and the other is a guide on gold trading:

http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/sh...d.php?t=264191

http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/sh...t=gold+trading

Also, these links are about $ for Zen which eventually becomes gold (or another in-game currency):

https://billing.perfectworld.com/whatiszen
https://billing.perfectworld.com/exchange

Personally I think we will have a similar system coming up.

Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 25
10-10-2011, 12:22 AM
The real danger is that this may become common in OTHER games. This sort of thing is just another point along the slippery slope. I've said it elsewhere and on other forums, I foresee the end of gaming as we know it, and probably sooner rather than later.

STO is not the only game that will suffer because of this.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 26
10-10-2011, 12:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leviathan99
Most are and a number of P2P games as well.

The only thing inherently wrong with currency selling is that a third party does it, potentially out of a sweatshop.

Diablo III isn't even an MMO and you can sell items for cash, officially sanctioned by Blizzard.
Sony hated it with Everquest (I got $65.00 for a Dragoon Dirk 10 years ago.. Woot!).. Yet, they created their own $ for virtual items exchange for select EQ2 servers. I guess they figured if they can't beat em, then they might as well take their own slice of the pie.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EverQuest

FTA:

Sale of in-game objects/real world economics

EverQuest has been the subject of various criticisms. One example involves the sale of in-game objects for real currency (often through eBay). The developers of EQ have always forbidden the practice and in January 2001 asked eBay to stop listing such auctions. For a time, such auctions were immediately removed, which changed market conditions and allowed a number of specialized auction sites to utilize this new virtual economy.

Because items can be traded within the game and also because of illegal online trading on websites, virtual currency to real currency exchange rates have been calculated. The BBC reported that in 2002 work done by Edward Castronova showed that Everquest was the 77th richest country in the world, sandwiched between Russia and Bulgaria and its GDP per capita was higher than that of the People's Republic of China and India. In 2004, a follow-up analysis of the entire online gaming industry indicated that the combined GDP of the online "worlds" populated by the two million players was approximately the same as that of Namibia.

Companies created characters, leveled them to make them powerful, and then resold the characters or specialized in exchanging money between games. A player could exchange a house in The Sims Online for EverQuest platinum pieces, depending solely on market laws of supply and demand.

Sony officially discourages the payment of real-world money for online goods, except on certain "Station Exchange" servers in EQ2, launched in July 2005. The program facilitates buying in-game items for real money from fellow players for a nominal fee. At this point this system only applies to select EverQuest II servers; none of the pre-Station Exchange EverQuest II or EverQuest servers are affected.


Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 27
10-10-2011, 12:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Starfish1
<snip>

Oh well, if that's the direction in which we are headed, so be it, but it does give me some cause for concern, and it does make the advertised term "free to play" a cruel way to entice people into a system that is designed to drag as much money from them as possible.

At least with a subscription based system, it is honest and open about the cost to play. Sadly, it sounds as though it's going out of fashion, but I don't think I can blame Cryptic for this, or punish them for it, I guess it's just the direction on-line gaming is headed.
You should try the "Free To Play" game World Of Tanks to really see a system designed to drag as much money out of you as possible... I already learned how a "free" game was able to get $150 out of me in 2 months:

http://forums.startrekonline.com/sho...7&postcount=21

Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 28
10-10-2011, 12:33 AM
Honestly, I think the idea behind these changes is a good thing. Driving the gold farmers out is never a bad thing, and this actually goes both ways - you can buy cryptic points with dilithium just as you can dilithium with cryptic points. After all is said and done nothing in the c-store will be required to play the game. (although I suspect extra bof slots will be very attractive for silver players after they get used to the game more)

I am a bit worried about the current gates on dilithium acquisition and the prices of items at end-game, but with that there is still time to test and adjust it accordingly.

Eve's been doing something similar for years, and it's worked out well for them, especially the players who can afford to play for free.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 29
10-10-2011, 12:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChibiClari View Post
Some grinding is good, but when it takes over two weeks to grind for a single ship weapon (of which you can mount 6-8), people will get fatigued and decide that it's not worth the effort. Most items should not take more than a few days apiece to get--especially those items that you are going to out-level within a week or two anyway (as will happen with any equipment below Mk IX). In the current build, the cost/benefit balance is tilted too far towards the cost side, to the point that many items are passed up as being not worthwhile.
I think the numbers themselves ARE way off but the premise isn't a bad one. This game in general has lacked anything that makes me think, "Wow. I really NEED to login and play today."
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 30
10-10-2011, 12:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rokesmith View Post
Honestly, I think the idea behind these changes is a good thing. Driving the gold farmers out is never a bad thing, and this actually goes both ways - you can buy cryptic points with dilithium just as you can dilithium with cryptic points. After all is said and done nothing in the c-store will be required to play the game. (although I suspect extra bof slots will be very attractive for silver players after they get used to the game more)

I am a bit worried about the current gates on dilithium acquisition and the prices of items at end-game, but with that there is still time to test and adjust it accordingly.

Eve's been doing something similar for years, and it's worked out well for them, especially the players who can afford to play for free.
I have a strong feeling dilithium acquisition rates will go up for Gold relative to costs... But not for Silvers.
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