Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
You may have heard that people are using mines to grief in social zones- since splash damage now affects allied toons as well as enemies, players can spam mines and when they auto-det, they can destroy lowbies, NPCs, and otherwise cause annoyance for players.

And of course, since this has become a thing, there have been players dedicated to causing as much as a ruckus as they can.



But I'm not here to talk about those players. I'm here to talk about players like me.

Let me tell you a story.



Today I played a bunch of STFs, using- among other things, tractor mines set to auto-fire in order to hold enemy NPCs in place while I unloaded at them with my cannons. It seemed a good strategy and worked out fairly well.


After completing the STF, I zoned into Earth orbit, and noticed that several of my doff assignments completed. Piloting my ship in circles as I perused my completed assignments and sent my doffs on new ones, I completely forgot that my tractor mines were set to autofire- and left behind a glittering trail of invisible spam.


Of course, no inept deed goes unpunished- no sooner had I completed my doff assignments when I noticed a /tell- I'd been reported for griefing.


Now, looking back I can see the giant cloud of tractor mines floating around- but I can also see a giant cloud of plasma mines, quantum mines, tricobalts, photons, chronitons- any sort of mine that there is, showing up in social zones and other places where players congregate.


And for as much as I'm sure everyone would like to assume those players are there with the intent to grief or otherwise cause harm- how many of them are afk, or perusing other aspects of the interface? How many of them are flying their ships disinterestedly while they wait for doff assignments to finish? How many of them are like me, a player who forgot to turn his autofire off- or who didn't care that it was on because it's never been an issue before?


How many players are going to- and have been- reported for something that shouldn't be happening in the first place?




All I ask Cryptic is that you turn off mines. I'm sure it's a big technical hurdle and that it's easier to just infract people who 'grief' with them, but given the ease of which a player can launch a bunch of mines accidentally- or without thought to the newly introduced consequence- that seems like a bad idea. There must be some way you can disable these things- and I think it should definitely be a priority.

There's going to be few things worse to a new F2Per than warping in to ESD after finishing the tutorial, and getting blown out of the sky by a bunch of mines- intentionally laid or not.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 2
10-12-2011, 12:21 AM
I have to agree here. When I logged out of Tribble tonight there was a cloud of mines so thick at the 'warp in' area of ESD space I couldn't see other player's ships. I don't think free-to-grief is going to attract very many new players...


Z
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 3
10-12-2011, 04:35 PM
They just need to turn off friendly fire, period. Its not a good idea, I have no idea who thought it was a good idea but they were flat out wrong.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 4
10-12-2011, 05:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kostamojen View Post
They just need to turn off friendly fire, period. Its not a good idea, I have no idea who thought it was a good idea but they were flat out wrong.
Agreed. The mines are the consequence of this system we see most readily. I'm not sure what else this affects, but I have seen one very strange thing that might be related:

During Task Force Hippo, and in a number of space missions on the Romulan front, I've seen enemies actively engaging one another. I can't prove this is friendly fire related, but I do know you can draw threat on enemies through casual debuffs, which could cause the ground hostility. In space I've been seeing plasma torpedoes actively seeking out enemy ships, while still being the target for those ships attacks. I can't prove either of these are specifically tied to the friendly fire system, but it would make some sense if it is.

EDIT: I think in space I may have actually seen enemy ships successfully draw more threat on each other than I did, causing them to turn on on another, and stop attacking me.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 5
10-12-2011, 11:44 PM
I've caught several instances of klinks killing eachother to death on the ground myself.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 6
11-06-2011, 12:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kerrus View Post
There's going to be few things worse to a new F2Per than warping in to ESD after finishing the tutorial, and getting blown out of the sky by a bunch of mines- intentionally laid or not.
It's worse than that. He's dead Jim.


I witnessed a similar experience tonight. the warp in area of ESD was mined so much I saw a VA level character's Dreadnaught blow up as soon as they warped in. the ensuing chain of warp core breaches was initially perpetuated by other ships warping in only to be immediately destroyed, but soon it appears it turned into a game where those individuals who mined the area to begin with unequipped their shields and flew directly into the warp core breaches in order to keep them going (of course laying mines before doing so). This went on for at least 30 minutes while I sat there watching all the poor Ensigns, Lieutenants, and Lieutenant Commanders that warped into Sol get decimated. I finally got tired (I sure wasn't going to leave the Sol system while this was going on just to have to come back and get blown up) and logged out of the game.

I'll tell you this, if the first thing that happened to me when I started playing was that I warped into Sol after the tutorial and immediately exploded I most likely would have uninstalled the game right then and there.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 7
11-06-2011, 12:36 AM
All mine and torpedo powers have been changed to deal splash AOE damage to only your enemy, and yourself. This change should be rolled out very soon.

They will still deal splash damage if you're too near your own target when they go off (as intended, to discourage folks from using things like Tricobalts as close range space-grenades), but they will no longer affect other players.

The splash damage will also ignore friendly fighters, targetable torpedoes and mines.

This change should address the social zone griefing, as well as being a general 'quality of life' improvement.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 8
11-06-2011, 01:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BorticusCryptic
All mine and torpedo powers have been changed to deal splash AOE damage to only your enemy, and yourself. This change should be rolled out very soon.

They will still deal splash damage if you're too near your own target when they go off (as intended, to discourage folks from using things like Tricobalts as close range space-grenades), but they will no longer affect other players.

The splash damage will also ignore friendly fighters, targetable torpedoes and mines.

This change should address the social zone griefing, as well as being a general 'quality of life' improvement.
In that case I'd rather it was just rolled back to how it is on Holodeck. The fact that friendlies were not effected by things like Warp Plasma made those powers seem unrealistic. Now friends aren't going to be effected again, so what is the point? It's still going to be unrealistic. Having the splash effect yourself is just annoying, if a fully realistic change isn't going to be in.

Here's an idea: Only enable friendly fire on the higher difficulties. Normal: No splash damage whatsoever. Advanced: Splash damage for self only. Elite: Full friendly fire splash damage. That way those of us who want a more challenging and realistic experience can get one, without making life harder for everyone else.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 9
11-06-2011, 01:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BorticusCryptic
All mine and torpedo powers have been changed to deal splash AOE damage to only your enemy, and yourself. This change should be rolled out very soon.

They will still deal splash damage if you're too near your own target when they go off (as intended, to discourage folks from using things like Tricobalts as close range space-grenades), but they will no longer affect other players.

The splash damage will also ignore friendly fighters, targetable torpedoes and mines.

This change should address the social zone griefing, as well as being a general 'quality of life' improvement.
This is not a good solution. Either roll back completely or disable Mines / Torpedos in non combat space zones.
The mine spamming in PVP will still happen if you implement the change as indicated above.

I like the idea of area attacks actually attacking firends and foes, but if it is only one self and enemies you might just as well go back to how it was before.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 10
11-06-2011, 03:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BorticusCryptic
All mine and torpedo powers have been changed to deal splash AOE damage to only your enemy, and yourself. This change should be rolled out very soon.

They will still deal splash damage if you're too near your own target when they go off (as intended, to discourage folks from using things like Tricobalts as close range space-grenades), but they will no longer affect other players.
The question is: Why is this a problem? It is actually not trivially easy to "bomb" enemy ships. Because just dropping a Tri-Cobalt usually doesn't do the job. You need to keep firing at your target, so you have to avoid overshooting, and you have to keep following your target for this tactic to work out.

I see no reason to actually "nerf" this tactic with something artificial as self-only friendly fire. A solution more complicated than necessary for a problem that actually doesn't exist.
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