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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 21
10-13-2011, 10:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdmiralBlack10 View Post
I here what everyone is saying and maybe they shouldnt be restricted, but there should be something that does compensate for the lower level players, but then why dont they open up all borg content to all the players, I have two ship an escort and a intrepid refit, mostly people loose because they dont work together and people dont know how to use there abilties, the key to the instance is picking a leader and he leads end of story, and everyone should follow where he goes. After that take out the groups of spheres and probes (these are alot easiser to wipe out) then when the unimatrix ship comes designate one or two ships to target the probes and the rest target the mothership this is best way to win the instance. However a compensation system need to be put in place for the lower level players and players need to stop probe farming, i loathe and despise probe farming, I have lost way to many instances that way.

Failure to use ability's is not a tier issue, and just to make a point do you ever SAY anything to anyone in these instances or do you just sit there seething and saying nothing.

Not having a go but a firm but gentle instruction to ensure a positive outcome is never a bad idea.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 22
10-13-2011, 10:59 AM
I've seen this alot on Tribble where there are Red Alerts and feel the whole purpose of this is to give the player the taste of what Starfleet went through at Wolf 359 with various ships of different power sizes.

From Memory Alpha:

The Excelsior-class USS Melbourne was among the first ships destroyed, with its saucer section partially vaporized while approaching. The Miranda-class USS Saratoga was quickly neutralized thereafter. When the Ambassador-class USS Yamaguchi and the Nebula-class USS Bellerophon rushed to rescue their trapped sister ships, they, too, were destroyed, along with numerous other starships entering the combat zone. (DS9: "Emissary")

All of these ships are below the VA level in game. Makes the battle a struggle for survival and a true sense of what you're dealing with. I would leave it as is.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 23
10-13-2011, 03:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dwarfer
Failure to use ability's is not a tier issue, and just to make a point do you ever SAY anything to anyone in these instances or do you just sit there seething and saying nothing.

Not having a go but a firm but gentle instruction to ensure a positive outcome is never a bad idea.
yes i say alot in these instances, that was the first thing i tried. Like i said and like other people have said talking doesnt do much when people wont team up and they dont know how to use the class or tier ship correctly or they dont listen.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 24
10-14-2011, 03:44 PM
AdmiralBlack10, as a regular forum reader, I've noticed that the number of threads regarding RA mission issues just keeps growing. All address roughly the same problems:

1. No effective in-game notification system for locating active RA missions.
2. To many lower level players creating failed missions.
3. No teamwork, or basic communication, between players.
4. To many "farmers" looking for SP & accolade points only and don't care about successfully completing RA mission.

There's a simple solution for resolving issue 1. We already get a Red Alert icon notification in sector space. Put it in the Galaxy map as well.

To resolve issue 2 let's discuss the Gamma Orionis sector. Cryptic restricts that space to players until level 43. Why? If the restrictions exists because players don't have the skills or abilities to survive missions in Gamma O until that level, then by all means restrict RAs to level 43 also. It's simple, the team with the greatest chance for failure in an RA mission is one with to many low level players. Even bumped up to level 45, low level players handicap a team with inferior DPS & skills. RAs should not be tools for power leveling or offer skill bonus awards. Rather if restricted until level 43, players will consider RAs as another incentive (like access to STFs) for leveling up faster.

Issue 3 needs to be addressed by the player base. "All ships, I'm taking command of the fleet!". Most of the time players will follow the highest ranking ship. If someone has started a team, join it, if not, start one. Then give lower level players the benefit of your knowledge & experience. Issue orders in Team chat. Issue orders in local chat. Heck, PM players if it's clear they don't have a clue they know what they're doing. You still may lose the battle, but you will have done your best, when others can't or won't. Once in a while you'll also receive a "thank you" from someone who appreciated what you did or said.

Issue 4 concerns me the most. It's also the issue I have the best solution for too. In order to stop all farming, accumulate all skill points & accolade points. Then, ONLY AWARD SP & ACCOLADES IF YOU DEFEAT THE BORG BOSS SUCCESSFULLY COMPLETING THE RA. No victory, no rewards.

Sounds fair to me don't you think?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 25
10-15-2011, 05:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Imaginos_8 View Post
AdmiralBlack10, as a regular forum reader, I've noticed that the number of threads regarding RA mission issues just keeps growing. All address roughly the same problems:

1. No effective in-game notification system for locating active RA missions.
2. To many lower level players creating failed missions.
3. No teamwork, or basic communication, between players.
4. To many "farmers" looking for SP & accolade points only and don't care about successfully completing RA mission.

There's a simple solution for resolving issue 1. We already get a Red Alert icon notification in sector space. Put it in the Galaxy map as well.

To resolve issue 2 let's discuss the Gamma Orionis sector. Cryptic restricts that space to players until level 43. Why? If the restrictions exists because players don't have the skills or abilities to survive missions in Gamma O until that level, then by all means restrict RAs to level 43 also. It's simple, the team with the greatest chance for failure in an RA mission is one with to many low level players. Even bumped up to level 45, low level players handicap a team with inferior DPS & skills. RAs should not be tools for power leveling or offer skill bonus awards. Rather if restricted until level 43, players will consider RAs as another incentive (like access to STFs) for leveling up faster.

Issue 3 needs to be addressed by the player base. "All ships, I'm taking command of the fleet!". Most of the time players will follow the highest ranking ship. If someone has started a team, join it, if not, start one. Then give lower level players the benefit of your knowledge & experience. Issue orders in Team chat. Issue orders in local chat. Heck, PM players if it's clear they don't have a clue they know what they're doing. You still may lose the battle, but you will have done your best, when others can't or won't. Once in a while you'll also receive a "thank you" from someone who appreciated what you did or said.

Issue 4 concerns me the most. It's also the issue I have the best solution for too. In order to stop all farming, accumulate all skill points & accolade points. Then, ONLY AWARD SP & ACCOLADES IF YOU DEFEAT THE BORG BOSS SUCCESSFULLY COMPLETING THE RA. No victory, no rewards.

Sounds fair to me don't you think?
I don't think that does sound fair. Gamma Orionis seems to be restricted so as to gate that area of the galaxy from low level players, but not necessarily because they're too low in level but more to make the Borg seem more intimidating. Although the Borg aren't particularly intimidating for long time VAs, to a new player that has to pass through a combined fleet of Federation and KDF ships that are actively hiding from the Borg it does make them seem intimidating. At least until the first Gamma Orionis DSE when you see whole fleets of Borg ships being destroyed in seconds.

Regarding low level players, I really don't think they're the big problem they're made out to be. Although their DPS is much lower than that of a VA the instance can still be completed with 3 LTCs as long as the group acts as a team. Unfortunately the group rarely ever acts as a team so they consequently fail. I have to be honest, the only time I see someone blame low level players for a DSE failure is in an instance where you have people who have teaming disabled, ignore any commands (like'Target Regen Probes) and are generally just not equipping their ship properly. As an example, the last time I ran a DSE was Thursday and I ran three of them on my Sci VA. 2 of the 3 failed because either a VA was sat at the spawn point (once in Sirius), one guy ran off and tried to solo a Tac cube after the rest of the group had started on the Sphere/Probe group ahead of the spawn point (2 times, same guy both times) or there's just a lack of teamwork (does it really need a command in team chat to tell a cruiser to heal the escorts and focus on the same shield facing?). In all three instances there was a minimum of 2 low level players, one of which was a T1 (NX and Miranda respectively). None of the fails could be pointed at them, unless there lack of damage to compensate for useless and selfish VAs is their fault.

And the last paragraph is the one I disagree with most. These are great for levelling and it seems to be what they're for, as well as introducing an accolade grind for those that are into that. I could live with this (points for victory) if there was some way to measure someone's usefulness on a team or in a group but with these failing due to inept and selfish higher level players I don't see why a low level player should have to waste time only to get no skill points for a failure.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 26
10-15-2011, 06:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdmiralBlack10 View Post
I feel red alerts should be restricted to the level of RA and above. I feel this way for several reasons, first of all new players tend to probe farm which insures defeat for players going in for the accolade. Second lower level players simply dont have the experience to fight the borg thus insuring defeat for the more experienced players thus preventing victory in the red alert and preventing players from getting there accolades. Third, lower lever ships simply dont have the fire power, armor or ability to take on the borg. Fourth, The borg missions are restricted to a higher level for a reason but the red alerts are open to all players I fail to see the logic in this equation, if you are going to restrict the Borg missions to the higher level players and borg space to the higher level players shouldn't you restrict the Red Alerts as well. As a Vice Admiral in the game I have lost many red alert instances due to lower level players probe farming, simply not having the capability to fight the borg and not having the experience, to fight the Borg. So please restrict Red Alerts to the rank of Rear Admiral and above.
Long answer - how about training said-newbies and sharing your vast experience in order to better combat the Borg threat together?

Short answer - No
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 27
10-15-2011, 07:07 AM
It's interesting that so many of you are rampaging against low level players with the argument of "lacking experience". Since when does the level say anything about that? As has been pointed out, there are many VA who don't know what they are doing and many low levels are simply alternative chars of players (especially as there is little endgame content, the number should be considered high).

Yesterday I had an RA with four VA flying cruisers (including me Sci/Excelsior). Unfortunately I was the only one capable of surviving with shields down, the others failed to see their role as a tank when flying a cruiser. You can't do anything about that by changing the rules. Neither can you stop some overconfident Tac/Escort players from rushing into a swarm of spheres without waiting for backup.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 28
10-15-2011, 09:25 AM
Here is what I see during the Red Alerts. The lower players follow the VA's into battle and do what they see the VA's are doing. The VA's start hanging back hoping the lower players will do all the work for them. End result, mission is lost and VA's start blaming the lower players and tell them how incompetent they are.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 29
10-15-2011, 09:58 AM
I disagree with the original post for three reasons:

1. Just because someone is a VA doesn't mean they're a good team player.
2. Red alerts are a great way to get a lot of SP at once, they're a great way for players to level more quickly and the 15 minute skill bonuses they give can also help towards that goal. Restricting them takes away a great way for players from Lt 5 (or whenever they start) and above to get bonus SP.
3. Lower level ships have their advantages too and sometimes really good players are at that level just because they got bored flying around as a VA and started a new character.

Bottom line is, no matter what rank someone is, you'll be on good and bad teams for these missions, and rank has nothing to do with it. Rank can be easily obtained doing only the story missions, where you don't have to team up with anyone to play. Team play and strategy are essential to Red Alert success, not rank.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 30
10-15-2011, 12:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdmiralBlack10 View Post
every time i have been with a group of ra's and above we have won and when I have been with lower players i have always lost, due to the lack the firepower and experience to win i mean there is no way these lower level ships can compete with the Borg ships plus every time I have played with lower level players they have gone straight to probe farming and we loose the instance and it is really frustrating
i play them as a captain and let me tell you i can beat some of the vas ive played with.
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