Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 11
10-12-2011, 08:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfpack-NZ
From the latest Dev Blog (Posted after I started this thread)



Wow so much for the promise Cryptic made to make all ships available via in-game means. Just another retraction of promises and yet further ripping off Gold/Lifetime subscribers.

I've had enough of this crap. So far I'm failing to find a reason to continue paying for this game since everything is being taken and put into C-Store so we have to pay over again...

Thanks for answering my initial question Cryptic...
So, you're going to use one completely illogical argument (statements made months ago under a completely different finance structure) to justify a second completely illogical argument (purely cosmetic ships are the only reason you subscribe) and make a completely false statement (everything is being put into the c-store) when your whole "value" as a customer (your sub) is clearly failing to provide the revenue the game needs to keep running....and you expect them to care?

I'm gonna say it very simply.

The VA ships are not required to play, or to be competitive. All other ships have now gone to "get them for free". Cryptic has to find a way to pull money out of this mess somewhere, so if not VA ships, what?

Are you willing to see consoles, weapons, shields, gear in the C-store? FE's? No?

Instead of real analysis of the drawbacks and options, people whine, and expect that they should get everything for free because of their subscription. The reality is , like it or not, that with PW's business model, they could lose every single freaking subscriber and if they get 5% of the expected new players to spend $5 a month, they will make MORE money even with all the subs gone.

They've done what they can. To suggest that trying to find a way to monetize this when they are clearly going to have to do it somewhere is "ripping you off" merely shows that you are not being objective.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 12
10-12-2011, 08:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Feor View Post
so... you're upset that you're not getting the super spiffy VA ships for free.

The ones that are purely optional.

The ones that aren't notably better than any of the RA ships, to the point that most people continue to pilot the RA ships, even in STFs.

The VA ships aren't even really a tier of ship, they are just RA +1 ships. The Galaxy retrofit is to the Assault Cruiser/Star Cruiser what the Rhode Island is to the Nova. One of them (Prometheus retrofit) is even a direct comparison to that, being the same ship with a spiffy ability.

You're upset that if you pay a monthly subscription to the game, you're going to get every ship in the game for free, except for those ones.

Yeah, I don't think you should continue playing, you're obviously just looking for reasons to be upset at Cryptic, and that's a sign that you're not happy here.
Its not that i want something for free, it is the fact they are removing the grind element and the various statements that the majority of ships could be earned via in-game means.

I grinded 500 Emblems over a good 3 month period, and when i finally got my D'Kyr it felt like such an achievement. I don't want to be told that the only option is a paid one. I enjoy the grind, i like having a goal to work towards. This would be why i am not impressed with the current situation with VA ships.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 13
10-12-2011, 08:32 PM
If you want to grind for the VA ships you still can. Grind Dilithium, trade it to other players for C-Store points (this is the missing link in this chain until later this month on tribble), buy the new ship. Net result, 1 VA ship that you earned by playing and grinding out an in-game resource.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 14
10-12-2011, 09:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Feor View Post
If you want to grind for the VA ships you still can. Grind Dilithium, trade it to other players for C-Store points (this is the missing link in this chain until later this month on tribble), buy the new ship. Net result, 1 VA ship that you earned by playing and grinding out an in-game resource.
Not really, were it manufactured by another player, that might make a difference. Grinding dilithium to sell for CPoints is in no way the same thing. Sure you are grinding the stuff but nobody made it and the fact of the matter is, going to work every day to buy cpoints could also be seen as grinding for ships with that logic.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 15
10-13-2011, 05:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skelmer
Also what will happen with the people who already have a Defiant retrofit on holodeck, will they loose their ship and be foreced to buy a new or will we be given a shinny new defiant with quad cannons?
I'm hoping they are refurbishing the model so we keep our Defiants, but they are the newer model, hopefully with the quads.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 16
10-13-2011, 06:15 AM
for the record:
the Quad Cannons will be sold on C-Store as the "special ability" of the new Defiant Tier 4 +1 ship skin "Sao Paulo".

Those will be WEAPONS, instead of a console.
You can use the weapons on the Defiant of course...
but Cryptic will not change the Tier 5 Retrofit Defiant in any way other than removing the Ship Token and Removing the option to get it for 500 Emblems, if you decided to get another Retrofit you gotta pay.

So have fun PAYING for your next Defiant, and PAYING EXTRA if you want the proper looking Guns for it.
Not to mention that there is a (awesome!!!) Ship Interior coming for the Defiant, which of course will AGAIN cost C-Points.

With any luck they maybe even do a Pack like the TOS one.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 17
10-13-2011, 06:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Z3R0B4NG View Post
for the record:
the Quad Cannons will be sold on C-Store as the "special ability" of the new Defiant Tier 4 +1 ship skin "Sao Paulo".

Those will be WEAPONS, instead of a console.
You can use the weapons on the Defiant of course...
but Cryptic will not change the Tier 5 Retrofit Defiant in any way other than removing the Ship Token and Removing the option to get it for 500 Emblems, if you decided to get another Retrofit you gotta pay.

So have fun PAYING for your next Defiant, and PAYING EXTRA if you want the proper looking Guns for it.
You know this for fact? If so, please link the dev post/blog/whatever that tells us this.

I find it hard to believe that they would release a new Defiant skin, and not reskin the Defiants already in the game. Also, there is no T4 Defiant. They are T3 and T5.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 18
10-13-2011, 06:29 AM
Hey gang, don't forget that as gold members we get a c-store stipend each month. Saving it should allow us to get a VA ship. While I don't completely agree with this move, I just haven't seen anyone mention this either. Carry on!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 19
10-13-2011, 06:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Savnoka
So, you're going to use one completely illogical argument (statements made months ago under a completely different finance structure) to justify a second completely illogical argument (purely cosmetic ships are the only reason you subscribe) and make a completely false statement (everything is being put into the c-store) when your whole "value" as a customer (your sub) is clearly failing to provide the revenue the game needs to keep running....and you expect them to care?

I'm gonna say it very simply.

The VA ships are not required to play, or to be competitive. All other ships have now gone to "get them for free". Cryptic has to find a way to pull money out of this mess somewhere, so if not VA ships, what?
Are you sure about. Notice how they will upgrade the Tier 3 Excelsior and Nebula. It's not entirely clear yet whether any Tier 5 VA ships will recieve this upgrade, but they are currently more expensive then they were before on Holodeck in the Tribble-Store. Since you can pay for better ships at the previous tiers, it seems to me they are creating the expectation in players that you get some "value for your money" buy buying ships in the store. How would they explain it to the new players that they stop doing that at Tier 5? And still want even more money for these ships? All the rationales that apply for Tier 1 to Tier 4 +1 ships also apply to Tier 5.

I think Cryptic needs to think very hard about how to handle this.
1) If the don't give these ships upgrades, then they won't make the level of sales they expect from them.
2) If they give these ships upgrades, diversity at end-game will lessen considerably, as all the "free" Tier 5 ships will be obsolete.

So I think they either have to bite the bullet with 1, or they have to create Tier 5 +1 versions of all Tier 5 ships.

But as a player, I am not happy with requiring C-Store purchases to get the "real" endgame ships either.
I think they need to at least give gold players a dilithium price for these ships as well. This would also give more "value for our money" as well, after all, we're paying for a subscription.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 20
10-13-2011, 06:45 AM
In terms of a rip off, lets look at some numbers,

2000 CP = $25
1600 CP = $20

the fact that if you sub for 14.99 and buy another 10 bucks in stuff of the C-store which is about 800 CP a month, using myself as an example I spend on or about 800 Cp a month, which means I would be putting in about $25 bucks into cryptic's pocket if I wasnt an LTS, now for the sake of argument let's say I'm a subber.

Now if I stay Gold, i'm still paying for my sub 14.99, plus this VA ship, is costing me an extra month's sub + an extra months of CP that use. Now if I do this for 3 VAs which is what most people do, That's 3 extra months Sub and 3 extra months in points, which puts it in the neighborhood of $60 -$75 just for ships, and as you said, not even "oh my god" ships.

I really don't know how to respond to this, I mean on the one hand it costs about the same, but on the other your hitting people up front. but at least with a Free VA token for one toon, one time, it gave you a taste for the VA ships.

My standard belief is that I don't believe in taking things away from players once they have them. Which is why I've always designed with that principle in mind, once you let it out of the box, its gone.
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