Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 21
10-14-2011, 03:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by spidey1980 View Post
In case you haven't noticed, they're going F2P. They HAVE to find other ways to make some earnings.
And, as I said, if you don't wanna pay, farm dilithium instead.
Its not like there's much else to do at endgame.
You know, I'm getting rather tired of hearing that lame and invalid excuse.
The entire idea with the concept of F2P is that you make more money of the FREE players.
You don't go nickle and diming the subscribers or try to force them to spend more money.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 22
10-14-2011, 04:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexraptor View Post
Indeed its not a win, they take away ALL the endgame ships from us, and then patronize us by offering us Free tokens up until the rank of Rear Admiral, and pretend its all fine.
ALL end game ships? No, I'm afraid you're mistaken. Every ship from Brigadier General/Rear Admiral on up are viable end game ships. What they took away were the really nice end game ships.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Katic View Post
Now if only they would live up to their word about letting Gold players retain every perk they've had up until now (VA/LG ships will now be C-Store exclusive, instead f getting a VA/LG token at the cap for a single free VA ship).. Or about how the C-Store would be cosmetic items only (Acidic and Crystalline Hortas, Rhode Island, Venture, Vor'Kang, Thunderchild, & K'Tinga Retrofit)..
I don't recall them promising that you'd retain every perk. I believe their exact words were that subscribers would notice "very little change."
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 23
10-14-2011, 04:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexraptor View Post
You don't go nickle and diming the subscribers or try to force them to spend more money.
Nobody is forcing anyone. You can buy the ships for dilithium, which should be easier for subbers since they can use the monthly stipend that they get ANYWAY to buy dilithium from other players.
Or you save your points and farm dilithium.
And since you seem to have some severe difficulties understanding that particular point, I'll repeat it for you again:

If you choose to do so, you can buy all VA ships without having to spend a single dime!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 24
10-14-2011, 04:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by spidey1980 View Post
Nobody is forcing anyone. You can buy the ships for dilithium, which should be easier for subbers since they can use the monthly stipend that they get ANYWAY to buy dilithium from other players.
Or you save your points and farm dilithium.
And since you seem to have some severe difficulties understanding that particular point, I'll repeat it for you again:

If you choose to do so, you can buy all VA ships without having to spend a single dime!
lol? How is grinding dilithium easier than getting a ship with a token at rank up?

They have stripped away an in-game feature, and that is intolerable.
Free VA ship at rank up was one of the primary rewards for attaining that rank.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 25
10-14-2011, 05:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by maina View Post
You are wrong, just plain wrong. Everything in the C-store is going to be grind-able. Are you not following the plan? Seriously, are you ignorant of how the economy will work? Save your protests for matters you understand, this isn't one.
really now? I think I understand it alot better then your think, maybe you should put your thinking cap on and follow this logic.

to purchase the VA ships costs C-points, which must be purchased. Period

Now if you grind up some Dilithium and sell it on the exchange, You have purchased C-points with your dilithium, which in turn goes to get your VA level ship. Free right??

Wrong. Those C-points had to be purchased by someone and entered into the system for you to trade and pay for you VA ship, which means the ship was PAID for by someone.

Now maybe YOU didn't purchase those C-points, but someone did, ergo, they are no longer FREE ships or earnable using solely in-game means, they have to be purchased with C-points from someone.

If you ever engage in dilithium trade with C-points, you will be buying someone's VA, or gear or anything.

However what this also means is that FREE players, can really be FREE players in that using this system, they can purchase everything on the C-store with out ever paying for it, and NEVER contribute financially to the game.

in other F2P games, the game developer at least had the idea that everybody will purchase something from the in-game store and get money out of them. But with this, it will allow free players to freeload off of paying customers. Either that or the exchange will fall into disuse because no one is putting their C-points up on the Exchange.

In either case, as I stated before, anything in Dilithium will have a real cash value associated with it, regardless of whether it is in the C-store or not.

As far as Cryptic making money, there are a huge amount of solutions to encourage subscription that they haven't even considered. locking professions to their profession ship types for example, delayed or lock access to featured episodes starting with the next, keep the first three free. Any number of suggestions that have been made on these forums.

Using currency manipulation is not the answer, and neither is taking away things that already are in the game. Especially since we were promised that wouldn't happen.

My understanding of the economy is much deeper then you think, and as well as the politics behind it. There are many answers that could make this game a better one, I have even tried contacting Cryptic with these answers, but no reply, and blatant ignoring continues.

I want them to email me, call me, hell come to my door and knock on it. I can help this whole thing if they want to. But no, all I get is silence from Cryptic, and I get yelled at by the likes of you. A few weeks ago, I was being told that there was no conspiracy, nothing to worry about that I was a "Tin foil hat wearing crazy person". Yet now I have been proven right. I predicted Dan Stahl leaving, and that the game was going to be changed to something we wouldn't agree with, I didn't call the economy specifically but I did say things were going to change and not for the better.

Don't believe me do a search on my username and see the posts for yourself, assuming they haven't been deleted. I think you will find some of them quite amusing, others enlightening.

-
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 26
10-14-2011, 05:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexraptor View Post
lol? How is grinding dilithium easier than getting a ship with a token at rank up?

They have stripped away an in-game feature, and that is intolerable.
Free VA ship at rank up was one of the primary rewards for attaining that rank.

Let me ask you one thing: do you have a lifetime subscription, are you going to continue a subscription after the F2P or will you play for free later on?

What you are trying to do is to keep all and everything the way it is - which basically would mean that our XO will have announce: "OK, most subscribers are going F2P, new players are coming in and have nothing worth buying C-Points for - savings will last till the end of the month, start on your resumees and declare that the servers will go offline indefinitely quite soon and bar the doors and windows."
For you it is a game, for them it is a business - if you want F2P paint a card game and visit some friends, because you wont find an MMO of this kind that can live of ads on a website.



Yes, the VA ships are top rank. As they are top rank they are THE ships a F2P-player will most likely buy. If they give the VA tokens to subscribers again then one month of subscription will be enough to get every VA ship on every character someone leveled up to just the right rank to do so.
(Just buying the C-Points for one monthy fee might not be enough, because I do not think it will be enough to buy three kinds of ships - as it makes more sense to fly a science ship as a science captain in most cases.)

Noone needs to buy equipment with dilithium - drops, whites and crafted items suffice in the middle of the game. PVPers wont notice much because noone stays on the tiers for long and most low and middle level PVPers will be new F2P-players with similar "problems".
(And after all they will have a chance now to live up to their bragging that it is "skill > items" ... )

So, if you - after F2P goes life - decide to take the monthly stipend (if you are a subscriber that is) and sell the dilithium you find on the way up to VA to other players you will be able to unlock a VA ship via C-Store for every character on your account.

Regarding your question: Purchase of ships will be easier for subscribers and lifetimesubers because they get C-points every month - hence my question: Which kind of account you will have after F2P goes live?



And to those that still do not understand: If you own a ship you keep it no matter what, even the ships now going to the C-Store.

On a sidenote: Even without F2P you could only get one of the VA ships for one character with the single VA token you got and the "Explo-Mark-Ships" were one-character-only too. (Heck, they even upgrade the already owned ships to the newest versions that are coming!)

If you bought them in the C-Store already nothing will change at all.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 27
10-14-2011, 06:16 AM
You sir, clearly do not understand how a successful implementation of Free 2 Play in a western MMORPG works.

Most subscribers going F2P would not be a problem IF they are given incentive enough to remain subscribed.
If being a subscriber becomes much more worthwhile than being a free player then guess what? People WILL subscribe.

There is a little game out there called LOTRO, its a Free 2 Play game, with subscriptions.
And you know what? When F2P came, subscribers lost absolutely NOTHING, no privliges were revoked, no gear or mounts were suddenly unobtainable.
What did happen is that Free Players had to pay unlock almost every little thing in the game.
And what also happend is that their Store was flooded with a lot of conveinence items, services and cosmetic items that subscribers could buy with their stipend.

And you know what? Turbine "tripled" their revenue from LOTRO, they are making more money from the game than they ever have.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 28
10-14-2011, 06:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexraptor View Post
And you know what? Turbine "tripled" their revenue from LOTRO, they are making more money from the game than they ever have.

So you are saying they will go down if they dont follow Turbine/You?

Btw.: After getting ripped by Turbine once in DDO, all they got from me in LOTRO was the somewhat fivish Euro to Amazon for the box. I returned to LOTRO (for a while) after it went F2P and didnt pay anything. I just took the points I got for the equivelant (sp???) of accolades and bought the quest areas we (my friends and I) agreed upon/liked most. Everything else (crafting mastery e.g.) was snatched in a gaming-heavy "welcome back"-all-for-free-week.

AND even LOTRO has content that is not free for subscribers.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 29
10-14-2011, 07:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maruko
So you are saying they will go down if they dont follow Turbine/You?

Btw.: After getting ripped by Turbine once in DDO, all they got from me in LOTRO was the somewhat fivish Euro to Amazon for the box. I returned to LOTRO (for a while) after it went F2P and didnt pay anything. I just took the points I got for the equivelant (sp???) of accolades and bought the quest areas we (my friends and I) agreed upon/liked most. Everything else (crafting mastery e.g.) was snatched in a gaming-heavy "welcome back"-all-for-free-week.

AND even LOTRO has content that is not free for subscribers.
Yes, they are called "Expansion Packs" and come with entire new regions to play with along with a crapload of new equipment and hundreds of new quests.

But what is a big difference here is that LOTRO has never taken away existing content from subscribers, past or present.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 30
10-14-2011, 07:09 AM
All of this griping about how they are "screwing" us just to make a "buck" needs to stop. It's just ludicrous. People keep talking about what they are taking away. How about what they are GIVING away for FREE? I.E. their WORK. Currently you have to pay 14 bucks a month to play the game, and you can unlock most of the important stuff without having to use the C-store (I don't because I have disposable income, I buy things like uniforms and ship costumes for a ship I fly once and then never use again). But I digress. F2P stands for FREE to PLAY. I.E. in order to play the game you need do nothing but download the game, create an account, and log in. Soooooo anyone could choose to pay nothing to reap the benefits of 75% of the work the devs put out. What if you ate 75% of your meal and you got to walk out of the restaurant without paying a dime? Would you curse the waiters and cooks for charging you to finish that 25%? I think not.

In sum I think that sometimes people forget that there are people working at the company who need to make a wage, and a good one, for their education and work. It's not like theres just one big fat guy in a suit sitting at the controls and all the money goes to him.

So, while we still need to shout and scream about any changes we don't like (i.e. ship tokens) to get them changed to the way we, the community, want them, let's not forget the bigger picture.

*Edit* I see Maruko kind of already made the same point.
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