Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 1 Gold Players - no VA token?
10-13-2011, 05:25 PM
I know things are still being sorted out...but I want to voice my opinion here now.

I have been a subscriber since launch. I pre-ordered. I subbed for 11 months before I bought my lifetime sub, and I would still be paying a monthly sub if I hadn't.

Gold players should not be losing anything.

I thought I read dan say that gold players wouldn't lose anything in the conversion to free to play, but it does seem to me like we are losing some things.

I'll use one example, and I am sure others can add their own as well...but no free ship token at VA?

Why? What reason is involved that gold players can't get a VA ship for free as we did in the past?

It's not like a gold player is playing for free. They are paying players. Why should we be expected to pay a monthly sub AND have to buy our VA ship? Why not just buy the VA ship alone and you don't get a sub?

I don't see the reasoning behind many of the things that seem to be taken away from gold players. I'd like to see someone from Cryptic come and explain why gold players aren't rewarded for our money.

I am a reasonable person, and I know that you can't get everything for free. But this isn't something we are asking you to give us, this is something we have always had. This is something that is being taken away from us. I wouldn't even mind doing a mission to ge the token, would actually be cool, but to make us buy a ship at VA is wrong. If we are giving you money each money to play, then we should be given that token for free.

There are other examples of things being taken away, others can comment on those, but this is the most recent one that seems wrong to me. If someone at Cryptic can explain WHY it's this way, maybe I can decide better if I agree....at this point, I just see it as wrong.

Thanks.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 2
10-13-2011, 05:35 PM
I have to agree with the OP here. I can understand only ONE VA token per toon. But I think what Cryptic is doing is a little extreme.

I will reserve final judgement with the final build.... if the dilitium requirement is too hefty (i.e. I should be able to buy one AT VICE Adm promotion, provided I havent squandered my dilith on other stuff as I was comming up the ranks).
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 3
10-13-2011, 05:46 PM
yes agree with OP 100% as I am a lifetime person from beta start along time ago LOL..I honestly believe they should leave things alone for Gold members. My wife brought up a good point, to her it seems like all these free 2 play games are geared toward people with alot of money to spend, and the poorer people are the ones who are getting shafted. Now I can say as a disabled person who can not work not because I am lazy but because I am on permanent disability I have a tight money belt that i do not go over just to play sto why i paid lifetime when i could.
Now they say gold get 400 cyrptic points a month so roughly 4 months from getting VA i can get the ship i want. Instead of us just getting it like before.
I love alot of changes that are happening Doff system is cool. some of the cosmetic fixes are nice etc. But it seems since they are going F2P alot of us are being walked all over by them and I do not think they really understand this........or maybe they do and do not care...............
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 4 I am not so sure...
10-13-2011, 05:55 PM
Although, I am happy to get a free token as a gold member, I am not so sure a free token is good either. My main concern with the dilithium so far is that the ore is not obtainable at a rate that will allow timely acquisition of refined dilithium. Also, I think restricting exploration to one daily is bad.

I think the story missions are rewarding skill points to much. I am of the opinion that story missions, exploration missions, and pvp should reward the same amount. I think 75 points is sufficient. Although, I do not believe pvp events rewarded skill points, but they do reward sufficient energy credits.

I think the reward for exploration mission of ore for daily exploration is okay, but they should allow exploration mission to continue to be the 3 mission reward as it has been. Then only let them reward a dilithium ore once a day, like the B'Tran did for Vice Admiral emblems.

I think regular exploration missions should reward random amounts of dilithium ore like the particle traces do currently. But if the whole point of the dilithium is to reward people for doing exploration missions and the time needed to do them, the current system does not do that. If anything it penalizes the person putting in a significant amount of time playing. Since all that is needed is to do 15 minutes of playing time once a day every 22 hours.

Thank you.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 5
10-14-2011, 11:10 PM
Getting ore as well as the refine limit is bogus to me. If I am a gold player, I should not have a limit to the amount of ore I can refine, period.

I know tokens may not be a big thing to many, but it's something we have always had. Why would someone subscribe to the game...when they can save that money and just buy the ship which they will have to buy anyway?

Extra storage...more energy credit capacity? Sorry, that just isn't enough to promote subs.

As someone who also pays Champions Online, someone who subscribes...there are many and plentiful reasons to actually pay to play CO. Nothing in STO makes me want to sub.

There needs to be something that promotes subs here. A ship token isn't much, no, but it's something we have always had.

Personally, I have max level captains of all three types on Fed side, and 2 on KDF side. I have one slot left that I was going to use to make the last captain, KDF tac, when F2P went live...but I honestly would never buy a VA ship from the store. Not when I am a subscriber who already gave you my money.

Buying XP bonuses or extra ship/storage slots or even Unifrom slots...sure, no problem. I don't mind buying unoforms either...love to see some new KDF stuff there. I own all but ONE of the FED uniforms, so I have no trouble buying that either.

But those are extras, those are things you don't have to have to play the game and be competitive...a VA ship, however, is not one of those things. As you said in the Dev Blog, the ships is backbone of this game, and being a subscriber is something that should be rewarded.

Not with just tokens, but also with no limits on the very fabric of the gameplay.

I have played nearly every PW game, and they aren't really a grind. The way this game is turning, it's starting to feel very grindish to me. I hate grinds. I won't play a game that forces me to grind. KDF I accepted because I understood why it was ignored, didn't like it but understood it.

Even Champions is a grind any more. I quit City of Heroes, WoW, LotRO and a dozen other games because they were grinds that got boring. I have been loyal to STO, despite the increasing push toward grinding that has taken place over the last year.

Note to devs: Grinding DOES prolong gameplay, but not in a good way. Don't do it. More players hate it than like it.

I just want someone to explain WHY we lose our VA token if we are a subscriber? I have two accounts, and I need to understand why I should still pay the monthly sub for the other one? It would take me four months just to get enough points to buy one of those ships...I'd save a ton of money just buying it.

It's an honest question, can we get some sort of answer...? Even if it's just saying, "We got your money dude!"
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 6
10-15-2011, 12:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by staalker View Post
I know things are still being sorted out...but I want to voice my opinion here now.

I have been a subscriber since launch. I pre-ordered. I subbed for 11 months before I bought my lifetime sub, and I would still be paying a monthly sub if I hadn't.

Gold players should not be losing anything.

I thought I read dan say that gold players wouldn't lose anything in the conversion to free to play, but it does seem to me like we are losing some things.

I'll use one example, and I am sure others can add their own as well...but no free ship token at VA?

Why? What reason is involved that gold players can't get a VA ship for free as we did in the past?

It's not like a gold player is playing for free. They are paying players. Why should we be expected to pay a monthly sub AND have to buy our VA ship? Why not just buy the VA ship alone and you don't get a sub?

I don't see the reasoning behind many of the things that seem to be taken away from gold players. I'd like to see someone from Cryptic come and explain why gold players aren't rewarded for our money.

I am a reasonable person, and I know that you can't get everything for free. But this isn't something we are asking you to give us, this is something we have always had. This is something that is being taken away from us. I wouldn't even mind doing a mission to ge the token, would actually be cool, but to make us buy a ship at VA is wrong. If we are giving you money each money to play, then we should be given that token for free.

There are other examples of things being taken away, others can comment on those, but this is the most recent one that seems wrong to me. If someone at Cryptic can explain WHY it's this way, maybe I can decide better if I agree....at this point, I just see it as wrong.

Thanks.
I always thought getting gear and ships in STO was way to easy. Nothing wrong with doing a little work.

Also remember this will mainly effect new gold players once F2P goes live. It is not like Cryptic is going to take away what we already have on the deck.

I to have played from launch and all six of my toons are fully geared out ship,equip,weapons,ground , and space. I don't see myself running up another toon until the Romulans come out... and that will be quite a long time.

Compare the Va ships to the mark 12 gear, your going to have to work at it to proclaim yourself ubber, it is no longer going to be handed to you.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 7
10-15-2011, 12:16 AM
I will with-hold my judgement on whether we should have our VA tokens back until I have some idea of the obtainability of these ships once reaching end-game. If the grind/work factor is too high, then I'm going to have to support the idea of giving us our damn tokens back or some alternative option which is more palatable.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 8
10-15-2011, 07:52 AM
Do I think we should get free VA ships?

In a word: No.

They are bonus ships. They are not needed to play end game content. They are not Tier 6, they are Tier 5.5. Giving us one for free was, IMHO, a mistake to start with. Cryptic has realized taht, and they are becoming purchaseable ships like any other +1 ship. I only hope they go all the way with turning them into +1 ships and make their special abilities consoles. (Stealth Console, Saucer Separation Console, and Ablative Armour Console) But we'll see.

When they open levelign up to level 60/61 which they've said they want to do with season 5, THEN give us a free VA ship token so we can get an actual T6 ship.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 9
10-15-2011, 08:31 AM
Vice Admiral token must stay for if no other reason than removing it devalues everyones subscription as they end up paying for "less".
The VA token was a primary feature of the raised level cap, and as such it must still be rewarded.

Someone mentioned Champions Online, those subbers do indeed get their money worth.
They even have a crapload of costumes stuff that are completely FREE for subscribers.

However, Star Trek Online offers us absolutely NOTHING in terms of C-Store incentive of being a susbcriber.
No free ships, no free uniforms, nothing.
Keeping the VA tokens is the very least they can do.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 10
10-15-2011, 01:00 PM
The VA token isn't going to happen. If you read the dev blog that had the future ship list, you would have seen that all the VA ships are C-store ships - that is, Tier 5.5.

My engineer VA on holodeck is running around in a Soveriegn-class ship and doing just fine, thanks. Thus, there's no need for a free ship at VA. Maybe, if and when they add Tier Six ships, then you may have an argument.

My advice: Be happy we got the Tier 2 through Tier 5 tokens back.
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