Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 121
10-14-2011, 02:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Latinumbar
And in addition to what Nagus and Heezjdim has said, those 4000 CP that you bought with your 800000 DL were originally bought by SOMEONE. Cryptic still made their money on the original purchase of the CP. So Cryptic doesn't really lose out. And even IF it is somehow farmed, Cryptic could just tighten the daily refinement restriction, and control it that way. They can make it very unprofitable for farmers. If I was a "for-profit" farmer, I'd move on to easier games(targets).
Were they? Or were they free C-points given through stipend? You are right, however, Cryptic could tighten the refinement restriction. But given the total chaos that emerged over ship tokens, would it be worth it?

Now, going back to my original statement, did I ever once say it was the perfect situation? No. Nagus simply asked me to provide a situation where farmers could exist, and I did. I'm pointing out it is not "virtually impossible" to farm this system. Difficult, requiring some manipulation and planning? Maybe. Virtually impossible? No.

But I warn you not to discount those crafty "farmers." I will bet some of them have been doing this longer than you will have played MMO's games in a lifetime. I'm sure this isn't the hardest roadblock they have faced. I'm not a farmer so there is no way I can come up with a perfect scenario, but until I see the farmers on holodeck disappear, I do not believe this system will end farming for good.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 122
10-14-2011, 02:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kobayashi Maru
Nagus simply asked me to provide a situation where farmers could exist, and I did.
No, you didn't.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 123
10-14-2011, 03:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kobayashi Maru
Were they? Or were they free C-points given through stipend? You are right, however, Cryptic could tighten the refinement restriction. But given the total chaos that emerged over ship tokens, would it be worth it?

Now, going back to my original statement, did I ever once say it was the perfect situation? No. Nagus simply asked me to provide a situation where farmers could exist, and I did. I'm pointing out it is not "virtually impossible" to farm this system. Difficult, requiring some manipulation and planning? Maybe. Virtually impossible? No.

But I warn you not to discount those crafty "farmers." I will bet some of them have been doing this longer than you will have played MMO's games in a lifetime. I'm sure this isn't the hardest roadblock they have faced. I'm not a farmer so there is no way I can come up with a perfect scenario, but until I see the farmers on holodeck disappear, I do not believe this system will end farming for good.

It doesn't matter how easy/difficult/impossible it is for gold farmers to sell dilithium. It doesn't matter how crafty those gold farmers are for these simple reasons:

1. Nobody is going to risk losing their account (because it's against the EULA) by buying from a gold seller when they can buy from a player legitimately.

2. See #1.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 124
10-14-2011, 03:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kobayashi Maru
I'm sure this isn't the hardest roadblock they have faced. I'm not a farmer so there is no way I can come up with a perfect scenario, but until I see the farmers on holodeck disappear, I do not believe this system will end farming for good.
The thing about farmers is that it has to be worth their time. In other words, the margin has to be high enough. Put up enough road blocks, even if there is a way to circumvent them, and they will move on to easier targets. Why farm a game where it takes a lot of effort to get a little gain? Especially when there are plenty of other games to go farm. If you are a theif, do you try to rob a house that has a security system and signs all over that say "Beware of Dog"? Or do you rob the other house next to it with unlocked windows?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 125
10-14-2011, 03:22 PM
And yet ppl still buy gold in all games .

And there are always ways to circumvent security .

1. Closing the deal outside the game to buy DL , the buyer sets a buy order at extremely low price and gets his items.

2. there is always hacking and duping

3. the scripting programs are very sophisticated now , are able to take ques directly from data from packets using deep packet inspection protocols , so the player doesn't even have to run the client only to simulate it.


DO not underestimate the gold farmers , its an industry that is funneling millions of dollars per year .
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 126
10-14-2011, 03:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Intruderxxx
And yet ppl still buy gold in all games .
That's because in most games, there is no way to 'legally' buy it. But now in STO, there is a legit way to buy dilithium. Why would you, as a gamer, take the risk of buying from a third party, when you could legally buy it from within the game?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Intruderxxx
And there are always ways to circumvent security .

1. Closing the deal outside the game to buy DL , the buyer sets a buy order at extremely low price and gets his items..
You'd have to time this perfectly. As it will be on the exchange, a very low price could be bought by someone else. Or someone else could also be bidding an extremely low price. Remember, everyone can see everyone else's bids/listings.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Intruderxxx
2. there is always hacking and duping .
Then these are not really "farmed".
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 127
10-14-2011, 03:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GenEricII

It doesn't matter how easy/difficult/impossible it is for gold farmers to sell dilithium. It doesn't matter how crafty those gold farmers are for these simple reasons:

1. Nobody is going to risk losing their account (because it's against the EULA) by buying from a gold seller when they can buy from a player legitimately.

2. See #1.
People still buy gold from gold farmers. It's a rampant problem in the MMO industry. Nobody is safe from it. Only by putting forth enough checks and balances can a company plug the holes. Even then, they all won't get stopped up.

Yes, it is incredibly stupid for people to risk losing their account for some in-game currency, but enough people do it to make it a lucrative business.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 128
10-14-2011, 03:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Star*Dagger
Greetings,

I would like to propose that as a sink for dilithium (or any other currency) the absurd "respawn" button be removed.
Having people actually lose some equipment, or an entire ship would not only ramp up the seriousness of the game, but provide a sink for the economy to mean something.

I do not see how you can run an economy off of the "click this button and your ship magically reappears" paradigm.

Now one can mitigate the loss of a ship, either by going on a mission to retrieve gear from the wreck, or hull components, or even dilithium. But this additional missions would add to the game and also make people think twice about tactics that are based around respawning for free.

An insurance model (again a sink) or a prestige model (the Admiralty of Starfleet likes you a great deal so they give you another hull but not the equipment) can be implemented.

Another method would be to have the captains put up X amount of dilithium linked to a list of the gear they will need for a 10 kill PvP arena match. If they do not die, they get their dilithium back automatically, if they die the full 10 times they lose it all. This would allow PvP arena matches to be played like the current games but still penalize weak captains for poor performances.

Wean the community off of the Respawn button and most of your economic problems will go away. You can then have characters crafting items based on their skill levels and actually sell these items on the exchange,and the exchange will finally means something.

Yours in Honour through Victory Plasma,
Star*Dagger
I know way too many people who would quit if this was implemented. Nigh every PVPer I know, plus many PVErs.

I could maybe see an EC sink implemented for respawn. . . maybe. Even then it would have to small enough to be nearly pointless anyway (around 1000 EC's). I could also see a sort of EC pool generated for PVP, but then how do we explain that in a realistic sense? Did the feds and klings meet at Drozana before hand, get drunk, and then lay down a bet about whose ship and crew was better than whose?

But dilithium? Never gonna happen.



Something that the "ship can't be replicated at a push of the button" crowd seems to forget is that, while the game is based in the star trek universe, there are some aspects of it that simply do not work in a computer game. We cannot expect Cryptic to put them in the game, because they will not function correctly.

Ship cost at respawn is one of them. This is a level of realism that cannot be reasonably expected in this environment.

Other games have had the same problem. I play both regular Forgotten Realms D&D (tabletop) and the Neverwinter Nights computer games. There are many feats, traits, skills, etc, that do not work the same on the computer as they do when I'm rolling dice on a table. They simply don't work or are not applicable to a computer game setting.

The only measurable effect of this difference is that I sometimes forget which feat does which and I as my DM is I can have the computer game version because it would be " better"
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 129
10-14-2011, 06:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Latinumbar
This bug currently exists on Holodeck, and is not new. It is not due to the most recent patch. It is usually not an issue on Holodeck because there are very few maps that are static and do not reset. It is only noticeable now because SFA does not usually reset because there are always people in it, and SFA becomes a "combat zone" during the event.
i said it got worst, and that that it isnt new, that they knew about it for awhile. just tossing the facts out there. re-read my post
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 130
10-14-2011, 07:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Star*Dagger
Greetings,

I would like to propose that as a sink for dilithium (or any other currency) the absurd "respawn" button be removed.
Having people actually lose some equipment, or an entire ship would not only ramp up the seriousness of the game, but provide a sink for the economy to mean something.

I do not see how you can run an economy off of the "click this button and your ship magically reappears" paradigm.

Now one can mitigate the loss of a ship, either by going on a mission to retrieve gear from the wreck, or hull components, or even dilithium. But this additional missions would add to the game and also make people think twice about tactics that are based around respawning for free.

An insurance model (again a sink) or a prestige model (the Admiralty of Starfleet likes you a great deal so they give you another hull but not the equipment) can be implemented.

Another method would be to have the captains put up X amount of dilithium linked to a list of the gear they will need for a 10 kill PvP arena match. If they do not die, they get their dilithium back automatically, if they die the full 10 times they lose it all. This would allow PvP arena matches to be played like the current games but still penalize weak captains for poor performances.

Wean the community off of the Respawn button and most of your economic problems will go away. You can then have characters crafting items based on their skill levels and actually sell these items on the exchange,and the exchange will finally means something.

Yours in Honour through Victory Plasma,
Star*Dagger
Right on Brother!

These dailies are nonsense, why not just have some asteroid fields to go to and obtain that of ore that needs to be refined, yes you would have to have some type of minding vessel but having to do missions or dailies is rather ridiculous and another poor mans method yet again.
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