Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 51
10-13-2011, 07:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by VVargazm
Don't you see?! It's all a lie! There is no free to play coming! It's all a lie to make us do a run on the C-Store to "save" money. Then in a month or so there will be a blog post saying "Hey we decided this f2p thing isn't going to work. Sorry." It's just one more slap in the face to people just trying to support our humble game!


You just blew my mind http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HY-03vYYAjA

Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 52
10-13-2011, 08:39 PM
First, I wanted to add my thanks to the EEPH for this blog post. I know there are still lots of issues to iron out, but the feeling that there's some honest, genuine communication going on is really encouraging.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Powerhelm View Post
The EEPH (Emergency Executive Producer Hologram) mentions making Energy Credits match up and be used for things.

...

C. White stores - I think having white merchants selling Even level and Odd level items (perhaps odd level greens at a very high cost) would be helpful.
Secondly, I just wanted to build on this idea of a White store.

I've actually been playing on Tribble exclusively using EC. And that's likely the way I'd play when F2P goes live, since I'm more in the casual camp. I'm ok with not having the best gear or having to put some work into it if I want some special item or another.

Maybe this is what the exchange is for, but given the new stress on EC for casual play, I wonder if there could be a little more variety in the sorts of items available for EC--say, not just your standard deflector, impulse engine, or shield. I don't need uncommon gear, but it would be nice if I could pick up a resilient shield or a hyper-impulse engine from a vendor for EC. They could even be odd marks. It would, at the very least, give people the chance to try out different types of gear before deciding to aim for more rare stuff.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 53
10-13-2011, 08:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by VVargazm
Don't you see?! It's all a lie! There is no free to play coming! It's all a lie to make us do a run on the C-Store to "save" money. Then in a month or so there will be a blog post saying "Hey we decided this f2p thing isn't going to work. Sorry." It's just one more slap in the face to people just trying to support our humble game!
Now there is the "Conspiracy Theory" I knew was out there!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 54
10-13-2011, 09:14 PM
I think this is a good start and explanation. However, if you want to say that dillithium is for top end gear and day to day we can use EC then the vendors on ESD need to sell white quality goods for EC. Currnelty there is no where to buy cannons for EC. You can't by consoles for EC but you can buy shields etc. These things need added to the stores. Whilte quality of course but still they need to be available.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 55
10-13-2011, 09:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparhawk_Mike
That is actually an excellent point.
Why is it an excellent point? The game economy does need to be kept in check and the more difficult it is for the extreme farmers to farm the crap out of the game the better.

All those poeple do is ruin the game economy for everyone.

the dillitheum system is brilliant and I give a crap about anyone complaining because they won't be able to abuse and contribute to ruining the game economy.

If your actual issue is that you think the cap should be raised some than offer a number with an intelligent argument for doing so.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 56
10-13-2011, 10:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by VVargazm
Why would I sell my Dilithium if there was nothing of value to buy with C-Points?
Your argument seems to preclude the possibility of them adding new things down the line that are desirable but absolutely cosmetic.

Perhaps because you already have everything of value earn-able in-game and now desire all the C-Store perks but lack the real-world wherewithal to buy your own C-Store points?

Perhaps because you're financial situation has changed and you can no longer afford to buy C-Store points, and they're putting something new on it you desire?

Perhaps you're a new player and bought the lifetime for the Stipend, bu the stipend is too little, too infrequent for you to get the C-Store items you desire, and have already spent your allotted budget for gaming in buying the LTS?

There are many reasons why people would exchange Dilithium for C-Store points, even if the C-Store items had remained purely cosmetic (as they darn well should have).

Quote:
Originally Posted by VVargazm
Also I think suggesting a video game economy is immoral is just grand standing. On top of that if you think the people from Cryptic are just out right lying to pad their wallets what weight could you expect your protest to have?
There is always hope that people in charge of the direction of the game will have a change of heart, or will be replaced by people with more empathy than greed.

As to the charge of grandstanding, the in game economy is going to be tied to the real-world with the Dilithium exchange, which makes their every in-game economic maneuver morally applicable to our real-world dollars.

If somebody offers you a glass of lemonade for a dollar, and you agree, and they take your money and hand you a glass of sewage, you have every right to either demand your money back, or demand an actual glass of lemonade.

We've paid into this game, with real world money, and an investment of our time playing. We deserve the right to air our grievances about the failure of the games developers to deliver on the product we're paying for, or have paid for.

D'Angelo has said (on STOked 100) that the goal of the economy revamp is to reward players for time spent playing. So be it. Reward players who spend time playing, instead of giving better rewards to players who don't spend time playing but hand over more cash.

Cash should be a shortcut, not a measurable advantage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VVargazm
And really pay to win? It's played out already. They tried selling ship skins that didn't do anything and no one bought them. You want to see new ships then this is how they will make it into the game. This is how it's been for the last 18 months and F2P isn't going to change that.
Here's the thing, they can sell new ships, that doesn't mean they have to sell better ships with no in-game method of acquisition.

I would be fine with the Thunderchild, K'Tinga, Venture, Vor'Kang and Rhode Island, if there was a method of acquisition that relied on time spent in-game instead of real-world cash, or, if the skins were just that, skins, not new ships with new Boff and Console layouts, or if the special consoles were available by some means in game, perhaps craft-able like the Delta Flyer (a perfect example of things done right), or the Aegis set, or earn-able via the STFs..

But having them be C-Store exclusives, necessitating that someone pay real world money (even if it's not the end buyer) is an affront to the entire playerbase, even if some of them don't mind getting the finger like that.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 57
10-13-2011, 10:10 PM
Let me see if I can answer some of the questions in this thread...

First, the non-repeatability of the exploration missions is a bug. It was supposed to be that there was one daily for Dilithum, then you could repeat just like before. A fix for this is in the works, but I don't know if it quite made this week's build or not.

Second, crafting details will come next week as I mentioned in the forums. We're targeting the crafting pass for next week's build and we're still hammering away at it.

Third, I was not able to post this week on how Holodeck characters will be updated, as I hinted at the previous week, because we didn't quite get enough done. I'm pretty sure we'll have this to you sometime next week. Our internal testing is going well, but isn't done.

Fourth, I agree that the stores should have a more complete set of gear, at least at White quality, for Energy Credits. I'll make sure that gets into the EC economy review pass.

And finally, the Dilithium refining limit was put in initially as a safety valve, which is useful as we're getting the economy data set up properly. If it turns out that the economy is stable without the limit, which we can tell from the Ore creation rates and other data, we can likely remove the limit or increase it in the future. I'm planning to keep it in place until we have more complete data on actual currency flow, then we'll re-evaluate the setup.

Stephen D'Angelo
Executive Producer
Star Trek Online
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 58
10-13-2011, 10:18 PM
I think the larger issue at hand is that the amount of people grinding dilithium will be a vastly larger amount of players vs the smaller amount of people who spend a lot of money into the c-store. When you look at real life economy versus paying money into a game the vast majority will be doing the dilithium grinding it just seems to not be well thought out that the cryptic points will be only funneled in by people buying them you'll see like c points going for weeks of dilithium grinding which defeats the purpose of the system.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 59
10-13-2011, 10:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdangelo View Post
Let me see if I can answer some of the questions in this thread...
Thanks for that. Now why are you working this late? I hope you roll in to work just after lunch.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 60
10-13-2011, 10:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdangelo View Post
Let me see if I can answer some of the questions in this thread...

First, the non-repeatability of the exploration missions is a bug. It was supposed to be that there was one daily for Dilithum, then you could repeat just like before. A fix for this is in the works, but I don't know if it quite made this week's build or not.

Second, crafting details will come next week as I mentioned in the forums. We're targeting the crafting pass for next week's build and we're still hammering away at it.

Third, I was not able to post this week on how Holodeck characters will be updated, as I hinted at the previous week, because we didn't quite get enough done. I'm pretty sure we'll have this to you sometime next week. Our internal testing is going well, but isn't done.

Fourth, I agree that the stores should have a more complete set of gear, at least at White quality, for Energy Credits. I'll make sure that gets into the EC economy review pass.

And finally, the Dilithium refining limit was put in initially as a safety valve, which is useful as we're getting the economy data set up properly. If it turns out that the economy is stable without the limit, which we can tell from the Ore creation rates and other data, we can likely remove the limit or increase it in the future. I'm planning to keep it in place until we have more complete data on actual currency flow, then we'll re-evaluate the setup.

Stephen D'Angelo
Executive Producer
Star Trek Online
Your update is appreciated.

I'm turning into a fanboy. haha.
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