Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 21
10-14-2011, 10:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Esquire View Post
Gozer,

Think you have to have some assemblance of "balance" included therein, also. There is a point where some1s version of "challenge" becomes some1 elses mindless "slog" of needless long-term difficulty, also.

I was in a pretty decent group, last night in fact, doing RA-KA on live. The 1st space battle(s) and expecialy the last space battle becomes a mindless "slog". It is really not all that "fun", just tedious, and over timed and by the time you get the last "boss" down to 25% to get the last needed spawns, your more just wanting the entire thing to be over and done with. You know going in that with a ship decked to the max, set up for PVP even, your going to re-spawn countless times (last night I had my eng in an MVAM) and death now in STO means exactly NOTHING via development design! "Working as intended". I played SWG for 7 years and death, in that game, was to be avoided at ALL costs. When I died (cloned) in that game, I was looking at the combat logs to find where I made the mistake and how to counter the next time. Here?, It's just part of the game and has became of little to NO effect or value to me personaly. That's a loss, in my book. 1 shot kills, endless tractor beams via NPC spam, to a fully decked ship, via many OP NPCs, or just 1 is simply not all that "fun". We had 1 guy in there who actualy needed the gear and never done it before , in my vent, that kept saying we didn't have enough DPS to do the job, over and over and over, (he'd basicly given up) and those who had done this instance many times had to keep telling him, "No, it's just the design of this thing". I don't believe it was all that fun for him, either.

I know "balance" is a hard nut to crack. I am aware that if you make it too easy, you'll hear (read) about it on these forums just as much as you'll read about the opposite. But just adding shear difficulty and long "timed out" grinds where you have no chance of pulling thru no matter how good your so called "skill" or pixel gear is a little over the top. Wouldn't you say?

I shall quote the whole thing, this STF we are talking about is on Tribble...why you cant post this in Tribble thread is beyond me, lets confuse things more why don't we.

Yes even from day 1 of STF launch, it was horrible...not a raid and not fun at all, they still aren't fun. Actually Infected space wasn't too bad until the recent update on Tribble. It was nice to kill stuff and not die 100 times, you could make it through without a death, if your team was good. If there was a death penalty, it would have made it more enjoyable and it really could have stayed the way it was. Since death equals absolutely nothing in this game, and you can zerg the crap out of anything (if you consider this fun Gozer, you have issues my friend).

Which if you refer to my post in Dev Blog #9, i made a post about the death penalty and covered a lot of things you have stated already and why we should have one.

You honestly can not even use the word raid for these things. Its not a raid, 5 people do not constitute a raid, sorry.

The infamous 45's...i would so love to see a tape on this...
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 22
10-14-2011, 10:21 AM
Oh, yes, let's institute a death penalty in a system where you can't help but die a thousand times unless you happen to be some min/maxing uber-geek with all the best gear and/or abilities. Yeah, that'll be fun. If you want to institute a death penalty, then it better be because you are scaling it so that a slightly better than average gamer can make it through without dying. Otherwise, its just going to be another nail in the coffin by driving average gamers away.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 23
10-14-2011, 10:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nrrdboi View Post
I shall quote the whole thing, this STF we are talking about is on Tribble...why you cant post this in Tribble thread is beyond me, lets confuse things more why don't we.
Star Trek Online > Star Trek Online Forums > Tribble - Free-to-Play Test Server > General Discussion > Infected (Space) Now impossible


Huwhah?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 24
10-14-2011, 11:42 AM
Just did the cure space. seemed harder than before. not sure if it was the team or the mission. still managed it but it seemed a bit tougher than before. in fairness though it was probably because are team members keep on being kicked or dropped. i crashed once and it seemed so did several others.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 25
10-14-2011, 11:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nrrdboi View Post
I shall quote the whole thing, this STF we are talking about is on Tribble...why you cant post this in Tribble thread is beyond me, lets confuse things more why don't we.

Yes even from day 1 of STF launch, it was horrible...not a raid and not fun at all, they still aren't fun. Actually Infected space wasn't too bad until the recent update on Tribble. It was nice to kill stuff and not die 100 times, you could make it through without a death, if your team was good. If there was a death penalty, it would have made it more enjoyable and it really could have stayed the way it was. Since death equals absolutely nothing in this game, and you can zerg the crap out of anything (if you consider this fun Gozer, you have issues my friend).

Which if you refer to my post in Dev Blog #9, i made a post about the death penalty and covered a lot of things you have stated already and why we should have one.

You honestly can not even use the word raid for these things. Its not a raid, 5 people do not constitute a raid, sorry.

The infamous 45's...i would so love to see a tape on this...
Due to the fact that this type of game development is a developer mindset. There were threads even on the same exact thing in the STO beta on way more than just STFs. Basicly, balance in general.

It's how they approach the game and the difficulty they've added therein. An NPC with 1 shot kills, being perma-snared/held in a game that knocks your defense rating for not moving, etc etc etc. It's all how they figure on the word "challenge".

I answered Gozer's specific post with an example. Sorry if you had a conflict with the fact that this example was live and not the "new beta" STFs, but, as you state, if the STFs are re-done with the same developer mindset as the originals (and I haven't really seen anything really all that different as yet) it will be more of the same as you talk about in your post.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 26
10-14-2011, 12:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Esquire View Post
Due to the fact that this type of game development is a developer mindset. There were threads even on the same exact thing in the STO beta on way more than just STFs. Basicly, balance in general.

It's how they approach the game and the difficulty they've added therein. An NPC with 1 shot kills, being perma-snared/held in a game that knocks your defense rating for not moving, etc etc etc. It's all how they figure on the word "challenge".

I answered Gozer's specific post with an example. Sorry if you had a conflict with the fact that this example was live and not the "new beta" STFs, but, as you state, if the STFs are re-done with the same developer mindset as the originals (and I haven't really seen anything really all that different as yet) it will be more of the same as you talk about in your post.
i chalk it up to lazy game developing (granted i am not a developer of games) but most of the people in charge of games are generally older and should remember a time when it was rewarding to get something accomplished in a game.

yeah the one shot wonders in this game is down right horrible...thanks for giving people time to react to something, let alone change strategy on the fly. instead its more along the lines of I am dead, zerg back, died again (rinse lather and repeat). Now that have people on the Dev team now and getting more, I sure hope, they get people who know how to make a proper and challenging game.

i want to like this game, but seriously guys and gals, UGC is generally better than the stuff you put out. They do it for free, and at the same time makes your game better. But a few good missions does not help make up for the fact that the core aspect of the game is mostly crap. Space battles aren't challenging, unless you come across some uber boss who one shots you, then its just annoying.

i really feel like i am beating a dead horse tho and primarily going off topic.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 27
10-14-2011, 01:35 PM
Well, I've just confirmed that this is doable by a PUG group... in two hours.

The lack of torp damage certainly contributed, but we managed to find a strategy that worked. Took forever. But it worked.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 28
10-14-2011, 08:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kerrus View Post
Well, I've just confirmed that this is doable by a PUG group... in two hours.

The lack of torp damage certainly contributed, but we managed to find a strategy that worked. Took forever. But it worked.
and that strategy is....

or is this a "no spoilers" post?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 29
10-14-2011, 08:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Galeforce
Oh, yes, let's institute a death penalty in a system where you can't help but die a thousand times unless you happen to be some min/maxing uber-geek with all the best gear and/or abilities. Yeah, that'll be fun. If you want to institute a death penalty, then it better be because you are scaling it so that a slightly better than average gamer can make it through without dying. Otherwise, its just going to be another nail in the coffin by driving average gamers away.
QFT

The Top 1% of players arent going to feed Cryptic, its the average joe 99% that pays the bills. Driving away average players is just a silly business decision. It seems like something the new Mangament just cant comprehend. Most people play for fun not machocistic perversion. Alienate your average player and STO is dead in the water.

Cryptic, please remember your earlier management put in Difficulty levels so the top players can have their fun without impacting the rest of the player base, if you want to make the game more hardcore tune it by difficulty levels so the average players arent driven to your competitors like The Old Republic. Even if the game is easier and more fun the more hardcore people can still play it, but making it grindy and too hardcore ensures only the 1% can play the game while everyone else is screwed.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 30
10-14-2011, 09:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CmdrNightfire
QFT

The Top 1% of players arent going to feed Cryptic, its the average joe 99% that pays the bills. Driving away average players is just a silly business decision. It seems like something the new Mangament just cant comprehend. Most people play for fun not machocistic perversion. Alienate your average player and STO is dead in the water.

Cryptic, please remember your earlier management put in Difficulty levels so the top players can have their fun without impacting the rest of the player base, if you want to make the game more hardcore tune it by difficulty levels so the average players arent driven to your competitors like The Old Republic. Even if the game is easier and more fun the more hardcore people can still play it, but making it grindy and too hardcore ensures only the 1% can play the game while everyone else is screwed.
This.

Look, I'm no uber gamer. I'm a lawyer in my 30s who has been with STO since May last year. I joined because I am a Trek fan and enjoy the idea of being in the ST universe. I would like to get my money's worth and am prepared for some toughness, but I simply don't have the many hours it takes to become a true expert. Since the Borg changes Infected has indeed become extremely hard (although not so much the space, but the boss fight with the now much weaker season 4 personal shields). I don't think it's unreasoanble for there to be some balance for less capable gamers to be able to play and enjoy these missions.
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