Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 11
10-14-2011, 06:42 AM
I have no problem with people being able to level to the cap with DOFF and non-combat missions if that's what they want to do, but not inside of a week or two. It should at least take a couple months.

Who am I to dictate how others play? This is testing, and everyone should give their honest opinions. It's good to see Cryptic is at least considering things from all angles instead of holding fast to something that only looks good on paper.

Now, should players be able to skip story-driven content and quick-level to the endgame? I would hope that's not the design goal, because who will spend money on a game you can "finish" in a couple weeks to a month, barring a few featured episode series and assorted updates a few times a year? It's simple math for the financial folks, and negates the point of F2P. It also makes it too easy for professional farmers to log in, cash in their easy dailies for dilithium, set DOFFs, and move on to another character.

The numbers on Diplomacy cxp are low, in all likelihood, because the tier breakpoints are so low. This was the result of a weak system that awarded 10 or at most 20 points per mission before DOFF came into the picture. I trust an overhaul will be worth it, even if it means some growing pains on the exploration and diplomacy mission end.

The good thing about it all is Diplomacy has shown us what happens when achievement triggers and rewards are too low, while the other categories have shown us what happens when they are too high. As things work toward the middle ground, I expect more players will be satisfied overall, even if some prefer one extreme or the other.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 12
10-14-2011, 10:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heretic
... Diplomacy is going to be nuked from orbit and operated on to make it work on the same scale as the other commendation categories. We were trying to avoid this given the impact it has on Content's time and the likely bugs that are going to arise from this, but the conclusion we have come to is that it simply is necessary.
While you're nuking and rebuilding, the Honod System Patrol mission needs Diplomatic CXP added to it. I haven't patrolled every single sector, but this is the only one i've found that should have (according to the pre-DOff-system rules) Diplomatic XP and doesn't.

I know that's strictly not your area of expertise, but if Content is going to be digging through and scaling all the other diplomatic missions, this should fit in with their checklist.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 13
10-14-2011, 11:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heretic
Finally, Diplomacy is going to be nuked from orbit and operated on to make it work on the same scale as the other commendation categories. We were trying to avoid this given the impact it has on Content's time and the likely bugs that are going to arise from this, but the conclusion we have come to is that it simply is necessary.
I seriously appluad this decision, as it did need to be done so you don't have something so out of whack with the broader, more comprehensive system that it ties into. I know it's a lot of work, but it's nice to see the team doing what needs to be done prior to the F2P releaunch, rather than try to put another badaid on things.

That said, I hope we don't loose the other neat aspect of the Diplomacy missions (the various Diplomacy Story missions on Memory Alpha, Starbase 39, Vulcan, Ds9 Bajor, K-7, etc; or lose access to the "First Contact" missions (that I still wish could get some variety in teh system maps and ships youy see as you fly up, because currently, all FC missions are in the same system map with the same alien ship); but again, I applaud the decision to do what's needed to properly intigrate Diplomacy in the Doff system as it should be.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 14
10-14-2011, 01:49 PM
I think Diplomacy is better served as a Hyrbid system. Afterall, how many times on Star Trek did we NOT see the Captain be it Kirk, Picard, Janeway or Sisko personally involved with Diplomacy? So it does not belong as a fully integrated DOFF only system.

Keep progression how it is now where you can still do Diplo missions (and increase the dxp payout, 10 wont cut it anymore with the xp increase) in addition to doff diplomacy.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 15
10-14-2011, 03:45 PM
As a Klingon player, any method to gain xp besides repeating the breen series until my eyes explode is a welcome change, I enjoy the doff system very much because of the tangible impact it has on the sheer boredom of repeating the same klingon content over and over.

Please don't remove the xp.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 16
10-14-2011, 05:39 PM
Heretic, when you raise/lower things, especially when you finally take it live, how are you going to handle existing values?

For example, if you raise the diplo tiers but don't give us "equivalent" dxp to match our progress, you dump us way behind. Conversely, if you lower the xp required for other things (like med) and cut our earned exp, you take away exp we earned.

Curious how you planned on handling this. My recommendation is, when going up, increase our dxp to represent a percentage of progress. So if we're 3/4 to Tier 4, then we're 3/4 to the new tier 4, how ever much that is. If you lower med xp from 50k for tier 4 to 30k and I already have 30k, then I just have tier 4 and you cap me off, cutting off the extras.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 17
10-15-2011, 04:03 AM
I am enjoying the Doff system, don't get me wrong.. but I have to agree that the amount of Captain & Bo XP that is in the current build needs lowering somewhat.. As for the amount of XP needed for the tier levels, I feel they are about right... It should take weeks or even months to cap them out, otherwise, as I've stated elsewhere, the doffs become redundant apart from the buffs we get from doing them...

Having said that, the (real) time taken to do a few of the assignments does need adjusting, and-or, XP raised.

My main concern is that many of the assignments have not been fully thought out.. For instance :-

Any that require multiple 'Security' officers.. As soon as you slot in the first one, all of your other 'Security' doffs cannot be used as they are 'greyed-out'....

Some assignments specify a 'Science' doff, but to achieve a 'Critical', it has to have an 'Engineering' speciality.... Whats wrong with that picture ??

There are others with similar mis-matched doff skills... Not to mention the problem that still exists of duplicate names greying out the slots...

I've just started a "Training" assignment, that had these required doffs :-
Operations (Any)... Sensor Officer (Ops).. Diagnostic (Eng)...Damage Control (Eng).. Hazard System (Eng)..
I can do this, as I have the doff's, great... But... it took almost 5 minutes to get them to go into the correct slots because the system as it stands puts them in the 'wrong slots, so I have to juggle them...
I realise this is still only in a test phase, but for me it is extremely irritating & frustrating...

Please make this a priority for the next pass through QA before you adjust the numbers... If we can't do the assignments for the reasons I've outlined, the XP required becomes irrelevant...
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 18
10-15-2011, 05:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heretic
Finally, Diplomacy is going to be nuked from orbit and operated on to make it work on the same scale as the other commendation categories. We were trying to avoid this given the impact it has on Content's time and the likely bugs that are going to arise from this, but the conclusion we have come to is that it simply is necessary.
In the current mechanic Diplomacy is an anomaly that may needs to be fixed, but then it should also be separated from the players diplomatic rank and be an independent value.

However somehow I would really miss to have at least one category more easily to be maxed out.
With the current diplo there was / is a short/midterm goal in the system to achieve, which would also give me a good impression of the benefits I could -some day- achieve in the other categories. It motivates to walk the long way to also max out the other categories.

Why take this away?

Or, why not give every player race a special "discounted" category in the doff system?
Human - Diplomacy
Andorian - Military
Ferengi - Trade
...

This way the chosen race would become more impact onto gameplay, and everyone could have at least one category in the doff system maxed without taking months.



Player & BO XP: I think there should be a daily limit on how much xp in total can be earned (with the doff system). Why not just reducing the amount of xp gained? Because its massively depending on how much doffs you have: With just the starting officers, and maybe even some of them already death, there is next to no progression due to the doff system. Lowering it even more it would become a joke to have the doff system as alternative way to level. However having a full set of (high quality) doffs - then you have some significant impact on leveling, which might be reduced a bit, e.g. by a cap.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 19
10-15-2011, 06:07 AM
Raise tier levels, keep them as they are, increase/decrease the xp for assignments, it's all just tinkering with the system. The real problem is no matter how you adjust it players will eventually get to the tier caps, then what? In the diplomacy system you worked your butt off to get to ambassador and then .....nothing, Nothing more to do so you never did another diplomacy mission. The question thats needs answering is where will the Doff system go for players who have reached the tier caps, have plans been made to prevent it becoming a redundant system?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 20
10-16-2011, 12:37 AM
The difference between the new DOFF system's viability past the point cap vs. the old Diplomacy model is obvious: it's a repeatable buff and reward system. The tiers themselves aren't the most important thing about the system as rewards go; it's the BOFFs, dilithium, gear, buffs, etc. that anyone can do long after they've maxed out the tiers in everything.

This is also why I think we could almost do away with captain XP from the system -- because there are so many other rewards built in.
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