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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
TL/DR: DOOM, with hope and advice.

As the title suggests, this blanket use of dilithium in its current state is going to destroy STO.. and by destroy I mean turn it into a neverending grindfest that is impossible to achieve, thus turning away your current, loyal community.

I know you're trying to hinder what we can accomplish without buying from the C-Store so you can afford the heavy costs of a MMO, but you just made the game not fun in a big way. I don't remember exactly how many days of doing every single daily available to us it would take for us to get a single purple weapon at maximum level, but I know it was in the double digits.. and that is just unexceptable unless you're planning on selling Refined Dilithium in the C-Store at a ridiculously low price. By low price I mean it shouldn't cost me more to outfit all 21 of my characters and their BOs than I already spend per year on the C-Store without having to be a slave to it: $240. That is $240 I pay per year in addition to the Lifetime subscriptions I gave you, for two accounts. $240 is more money per year than a $15 fee per month. Consider that when you balance the costs of Dilithium (and knowing your business model I'm going to assume you'll be selling unrefined dilithium, which brings me to my next issue).

To put it bluntly, unlimited refinement for gold members or GTFO. It seems you have forgotten "gold members" in your persuit of a business model supported by F2Pers. We are flat out punished for paying to play this new system. A 800 Dilithium per month stipend you say? I have your 800 Dilithium stipend right here: a single, blue quality, Commander ranked Phaser Beam Array costs 21,600 Refined Dilithium.

21,600 Refined Dilithium.

Refined Dilithium.

Refined.

First off, why does a single weapon in the middle of the leveling process cost more than an entire equal level ship?

Second, why are we paying that much for either? Not only should we get enough Refined Dilithium to be able to purchhase our next ship at Promotion, but we should have enough left over to buy a handful of upgrades! That extra stuff you're forcing us to grind (and yes I use the word force) should be to complete outfitting our ship around the midddle of our rank. Or change it so that the blue quality (AKA "leveling")equipment sold at ESD and First City (notice: not the purple stuff) uses Energy Credits instead of Dilithium. At Commander 1 I have 27,268 Energy Credits. That's after selling and missioning my perfectly waxed butt off. A single EPS console goes for 50k on the Exchange. Ya, that's going to be an issue when people are in the middle of leveling.

Now as for where Dilithium -should- be: endgame. While I hate the idea of grinding, it is going to be the foundation for wrapping up endgame motivation in a neat little package. That said you should throw dailies out the window right now. MMOs are now realizing the mistake of making progression be based on forcing people to log in every single day. Instead of getting the jump on this issue and modernizing yourself, you just took this game back 5 years. If you don't log in every single day and do every single daily available to you, you won't see a single fully equipped character (in a game that is not supposed to be about how powerful your equipment is) for up to a year. Why not just use white quality equipment you ask? Because I do it for the aesthetics. That purple stuff is the only way of developing a uniformed theme for a character. That's what STO -USED- to be about: customizing your experience to your tastes.

Now I'm just getting lost in my own rants though. There are several notes you should take from this, Cryptic:

1) Learn from your cousin MMO (Champions Online). Develop a F2P experience that does not worsen the gameplay of those that do not purchase from the C-Store. Make people who pay have a more enjoyable experience than what was already there, and let the F2Pers have the "normal" experience. An example of this is boosts to gameplay (GAMEPLAY THAT WAS NOT NERFED DOWN TO CREATE THE ILLUSION OF BEING BOOSTED AFTER A PURCHASE) As it is right now everyone is going to be buried in an unfun, tedious, endless, time consuming grindfest no matter if they pay to play, buy from the C-Store, or are a frugile F2P hermit.

2) Create big incentives for purchasing from the C-Store and for subbing. Nice things. Things that make our experience more enjoyable, not things that make our experience more bearable. Very different. Things such as Unlimited Refined Ore per day, Ore boosts, money boosts, experience boosts, continue the fluff such as Veteran Reward costumes etc, or even make certain aesthetics P2P. Nerfing the current experience to make us feel like we need to buy from the store (and by we I mean the "gold" members) to make the game not as terrible is going to destroy this game.

3) Don't be afraid to divert from what people expect a MMO to be. STO doesn't need carrots on sticks. Leave the grind treadmill to someone else (and there are many.. many, many, many someone elses). STO should be about what's past that next star, not what's past that next purple. I joined up and stayed with STO because I wanted to have vast visual and mechanical customization over my character, their crew, their ship, what they did, where they went, and ya I heard it in another thread: almost like The Sims: Star Trek... if The Sims ever let you explore new worlds with a crew and a ship *COUGH* I hope you are taking another look at exploration soon *COUGH*

I sure as hell didn't join up to grind loot and fight bosses in raids. There are 65783265987603257803235 other MMOs that are about that.






Edit: Removed my former distateful endiing word. Instead I shall leave you with a rude gesture. /rudegesture.

Loyal Cryptic Customer,

- Christophe
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 2
10-07-2011, 08:42 AM
At the very least, they should not make 100,000 the cheapest amount. Stinks enough to bother the dead.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 3
10-07-2011, 09:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lennan View Post
I sure as hell didn't join up to grind loot and fight bosses in raids. There are 65783265987603257803235 other MMOs that are about that.
Amen to that. I'd go back to WoW if I wanted to grind all day and MAYBE get a gear item if you can find a group to do a STF.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 4
10-07-2011, 09:34 AM
I have to concur.

Cryptic you made a promise that Free-to-Play transition would not cause Lifers and Subbing customers to loose anything. You stated we would loose nothing. We have lost. Not getting a free ship on Rank up is loosing something. You breeched your contract with us at least on a moral if not legal level.

Fix it! 21k refined dillithium for one item? Over priced and under fundeded. Doing the dam Exploration dailies gave a whopping 1440 refined dillithium (thanks god it was refined) at that rate i would have to do 10+ dailies to get one weapon. Compare with the badge system at the same rank i am now (Commander) 10 dalies would yield 750 badges and given the pricing at that level I could out fit nearly my entire ship.

That's a huge and I mean huge discrepency.

Prices need to come down!

Allotements of Refinded dillithium need to go up!

Gold members should have some kind of Dillithium advantage for paying for this game. Subscribers pay 15 bucks a month. Lifers gave you 240 bucks up front on trust. That was an investment. Investments should pay dividends. This one was but the current pay suggests a loosing scenario.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 5
10-07-2011, 11:24 AM
There's another problem with the current Tribble economy.

Cryptic has been saying that trading dilithium for C-points is the plan for earning stuff from the C-Store without having to pay for it yourself. The problem I'm seeing is with the current setup is who's going to want to trade their dilithium for C-points when they have to grind for days just to buy a photon torpedo launcher? With the current crazy prices people looking to exchange dilithium won't be able to afford to until they hit the level cap and they aren't going to be buying unless they can get large quantities of C-points for what they spend weeks grinding out. Meanwhile the people looking to buy dilithium aren't going to be selling the C-points that they paid real money for unless each C-point brings in large chunks of dilithium.

Right now on Holodeck I can do any exploration cluster mission for 75 Badges of varying marks, as many times a day as I want. If I have the spare time I can outfit an entire ship and crew of boffs in a day or less from the stores that take Badges of Exploration. This is impossible under the current dilithium system on Tribble.

Devs, if 75 Badges of exploration = 1440 dilithium, then go take a good hard look at what you can buy for badges of exploration on Holodeck. Adjust the dilithium prices accordingly.

Either the prices on items need to come down to a fraction of their current cost in dilithium, or the amount of dilithium we can earn and refine per day needs to go up drastically. Because if things stay the way they are this economy is going to be broken beyond repair the second it hits Holodeck.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 6
10-07-2011, 11:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Presticus View Post
Devs, if 75 Badges of exploration = 1440 dilithium, then go take a good hard look at what you can buy for badges of exploration on Holodeck. Adjust the dilithium prices accordingly.

Either the prices on items need to come down to a fraction of their current cost in dilithium, or the amount of dilithium we can earn and refine per day needs to go up drastically. Because if things stay the way they are this economy is going to be broken beyond repair the second it hits Holodeck.
Half is a fraction...

Seriously though, you have a point. One Green Mk X torp launcher is 63 Marks. So, that would make the same worth about 1210 dilithium, all things being equal.

The devs definitely need to balance the new economies more. The discount token thing was a good step in the right direction, but it was only a step, the journey is no where near complete.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 7
10-07-2011, 12:18 PM
They have said that Dilithium items are overprice right now, this is for balancing and testing. I think the real question we should ask, and that we should tell cryptic, is what the amount of items should be. I should not have to grind any morethan I already do for badges, to get gear. When I level up I should have the right amount of dilithium to buy my next ship (wether it is all handed to me at once, or over the missions that I completed to get to the next rank.) There should be no 14 day grind fests to get one purp weapon. I outfited my defiant with purp plasma weapons the day I got it on the holodeck, and now I am gathering emblems to upgrade it to purp phasers in anticipation of the new Sau Paulo class.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 8
10-07-2011, 12:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sollaf View Post
They have said that Dilithium items are overprice right now, this is for balancing and testing. I think the real question we should ask, and that we should tell cryptic, is what the amount of items should be. I should not have to grind any morethan I already do for badges, to get gear. When I level up I should have the right amount of dilithium to buy my next ship (wether it is all handed to me at once, or over the missions that I completed to get to the next rank.) There should be no 14 day grind fests to get one purp weapon. I outfited my defiant with purp plasma weapons the day I got it on the holodeck, and now I am gathering emblems to upgrade it to purp phasers in anticipation of the new Sau Paulo class.
Agreed. I am getting a bad vibe that our destination will not be too far from where we are now.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 9
10-08-2011, 11:09 AM
I've joked in the in-game channels saying, perhaps somebody put one too many 0's in the price database
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 10
10-08-2011, 11:24 AM
Thanks for the feedback everyone. We do indeed have the prices wrong (perhaps even by an order of magnitude) on the gear and such that sells for Dilithium. We had a lot of focus in the team on getting the sources of Dilithium hooked up and working, and did not pay as much attention to the back end pricing yet as we probably should have. We will be reviewing the pricing to make it a lot more sane, because I agree with you that it's painful right now to do quite a few things.

Stephen D'Angelo
Executive Producer
Star Trek Online
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