Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 61
10-18-2011, 07:16 PM
Quote:
So, I'm watching Star Trek: Voyager...
Stop right there!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 62
10-18-2011, 07:31 PM
kim isnt the ream kim
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 63
10-18-2011, 07:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leviathan99
Janeway revealed at the end of that episode that she remembered byi identifying where Chakotay's booze stash was.

And the way altered timelines work in Star Trek, people actually doing the time traveling remember along with the earliest altered point in the timeline.

Hence: The TNG crew went back to stop the Borg from stopping First Contact. They remember seeing the world assimilated. Even though it never was and they had no reason to go back at the end after they fixed things because they never would have seen an assimilated Earth. And Zefram Cochrane still remembers the Borg and the TNG crew's involvement and it's even mentioned on Enterprise that he tried to tell the world about the Borg and the time travelers who helped him.

This is a consequence of effectively one past, generally, with multiple futures.

If I go back to hang out with George Washington and then skip ahead and kill my grandfather, I cease to exist but George Washington still remembers me. Because I'm not real from my own perspective but I'm still a possible future from his perspective.

For the same reason, you could have two people show up from two different futures in our present, because they're equally real to us.

I love this stuff.
Generally the only time that people retain their memories amidst time changes is only if they are shielded from the changes. In First Contact, the Enterprise was on the backwash of the temporal rift. From TOS, Guardian of Forever, Kirk and Crew still remained in the old time like because there were in the presence of the Guardian. Chakotay was shielded because of his accident, and Janeway was probably shield in some way as well. In the "Year of Hell", Voygaer was caught up in the temporal changes until they modified their shields into Temporal Shielding. They Voyager was shields from the time changes.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 64
10-18-2011, 09:10 PM
I didn't think Voyager's acting was that bad. I just think the series had no point. I watched the entire series less than a year ago and I can't even bring to mind any memorable episodes without a great deal of effort.

I think a lot of time "acting quality" may be confused for the quality of the story. If the story doesn't create an emotional connection, then there's not much the actors can do about it. I think that was Voyager's biggest flaw. It was completely uninspired and basically a lesser version of TNG but in the Delta Quadrant.

The worst thing is that Voyager could have been the best ST series. The setting had the potential to be great. But they'd have had to go down the grittier road with their ship breaking down and having to make sacrifices to survive. The writers simply were not up for the task at all.

TNG did have bad acting for the first season or two, but after that I thought its acting was decent (didn't stand out as being particularly bad in any way). Also, I thought Brent Spiner and Patrick Stewart did a lot with their characters. So even if some of the other cast was a bit weaker, they made up for it.

I thought DS9 had better acting than the other series, but the actors has more to work with too (after the first two horrendous seasons).

That said, I thought the acting on ENT was the best of all. Say what you will about the series as a whole but I thought the acting was a lot better than in the other shows. I think that just goes to show how much the quality of TV acting has gone up over the course of a couple of decades. I felt like the characters acted like real people with some depth to them which was lacking in some of the other shows.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 65
10-19-2011, 01:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Walshicus
Voyager is literally the worst Star Trek show by a wide margin. Ronald D Moore explains why:

http://www.lcarscom.net/rdm1000118.htm
He pretty much nails it all. Voyager didn't feel real, and didn't trust its own premise. Even his comment on the prequel ideas (at that time, Enterprise wasn't really planned or in the works yet) seem to fit.

Mustrum "Since BSG, total Moore fanboi" Ridcully
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 66
10-19-2011, 04:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Walshicus
Voyager is literally the worst Star Trek show by a wide margin. Ronald D Moore explains why:

http://www.lcarscom.net/rdm1000118.htm

It's almost offensive how much the people who made the decisions on Voyager hated their audience.
Nothing is worse then ToS though. Forced myself to watch it once just so i dident miss on anything Trek. This: is more entertaining. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52o1d7XPni0

Voyager had its good moments. But the whole of season 7 is just ... Meh.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 67
10-19-2011, 04:04 AM
Janeway: "Cronk! Pull the lever!"
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 68
10-19-2011, 04:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CedricO
Nothing is worse then ToS though. Forced myself to watch it once just so i dident miss on anything Trek. This: is more entertaining. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52o1d7XPni0

Voyager had its good moments. But the whole of season 7 is just ... Meh.
Maybe they could be improved with this treatment: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7jbP1_H9sA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRpcqr89f0E
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 69
10-19-2011, 06:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CedricO
Nothing is worse then ToS though. Forced myself to watch it once just so i dident miss on anything Trek. This: is more entertaining. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52o1d7XPni0
This pretty much sums up ToS:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eyiMdVyEjh0
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 70
10-19-2011, 06:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fuzun View Post
Generally the only time that people retain their memories amidst time changes is only if they are shielded from the changes. In First Contact, the Enterprise was on the backwash of the temporal rift. From TOS, Guardian of Forever, Kirk and Crew still remained in the old time like because there were in the presence of the Guardian. Chakotay was shielded because of his accident, and Janeway was probably shield in some way as well. In the "Year of Hell", Voygaer was caught up in the temporal changes until they modified their shields into Temporal Shielding. They Voyager was shields from the time changes.
Nothing in Janeway's timeline changed aside from seeing the future.

I certainly didn't pull this idea out of nowhere. Most reviewers are shocked by this episode and walk away with the same conclusion: that Janeway knew what was going to happen all along.
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