Lt. Commander
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# 1 Klingon BATTLE Cruisers
10-18-2011, 02:40 PM
Klingon Battle Cruisers.

Klingon BATTLE Cruisers.

None of which have a LtC BATTLE bridge officer slot.

While a Fed Cruiser (Excelsior) has. It's more capable of BATTLE than any Klingon BATTLE Cruiser.

(And no, the Battle Cruiser's +5 weapon power over the Cruiser's weapon power doesn't make up for the fact that no Klingon BATTLE Cruiser can never, ever, fire Beam Overload III or High Yield III).

And the KDF flagship, a BATTLE Cruiser I presume? Does it have a LtC BATTLE bridge officer slot? It should, at least, since you would think the flagship would be the most powerful (KDF powerful = guns) ship...


I'm posting about this long-standing problem now because PW is giving C the resources to finally beef up the KDF. So might as well make long-needed improvements to the KDF while the iron's hot.

(Speaking of KDF improvements... what about the two-month old QIN pivot point fix promise?)
Lt. Commander
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# 2
10-18-2011, 05:06 PM
And the fact that Klingon battle cruisers are the most maneuvrable cruisers in the game along with being the only cruisers able to consistently slot Dual and Dual Heavy cannons means absolutely nothing?

Seriously dude, a Lt.Cmdr tactical slot would make them seriously overpowered to the extreme when paired with a tactical captain.
Lt. Commander
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# 3
10-18-2011, 06:27 PM
Alexraptor's viewpoint is well taken...but Alex is not looking at the big picture.

Quad cannons are going to be the norm for escort-class vessels. Klingon battle cruisers will not be able to mount or use quad cannons...and I do think that quad cannons are more than just cosmetic. I suspect that there is a damage boost in there.

That means that although KDF cruisers can mount cannons, they will fall far short of what an escort , destroyer, or light cruiser can dish out...saying that, I would not be surprised if one of the cruiser refits -- and my guess right now is with the Neghvar Refit that is on the schedule -- as having a LCDR Tac slot.

Now...will that make that particular ship OP in regards to the Federation cruiser class? Some folks are bound to say so...but right now the Excelsior is the most battle-capable cruiser in the game because of that LCDR Tac slot. The KDF has no parity when it comes to the Excelsior. That is the plain and simple truth. The reality is that the Excelsior, in the right hands, is OP.

The KDF should at least have parity...and considering the emphasis on battle and conflict, not having a cruiser with a LCDR Tac slot in the KDF ship stable is unnatural and unexpected - especially since the peace-loving Federation has exactly that.

Like I said, I sort of expect a future KDF cruiser to have a LCDR Tac slot -- now...how Cryptic will balance that? I don't know...but I am sure that they have some good ideas....
Lt. Commander
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# 4
10-18-2011, 07:48 PM
I agree, been saying this for a while. Just because they can slot Dual heavies doesn't mean they should use em, even turning better than fed cruisers doesn't make em viable. And don't forget we trade hull and a device slot to be more maneuverable. The Kdf has a bit more firepower in the cruisers and the fed ones tank better.

Oh and that fed cruiser that has a LTCMDR tac? It turns just as well as ours do.
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# 5
10-18-2011, 07:56 PM
I propose a huge K'vort Klingon Battle Cruiser. Basically a large B'rel with upswept wings that fits the role you suggest, to counter the Excelsior.

Wait what about a Negh'var refit? Where was this announced?
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# 6
10-18-2011, 08:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Morgomir View Post
I propose a huge K'vort Klingon Battle Cruiser. Basically a large B'rel with upswept wings that fits the role you suggest, to counter the Excelsior.

Wait what about a Negh'var refit? Where was this announced?
This... or a K'tinga. The tinga's basically the same era as the excel, and both continued their service well past DS9.

Either ship (kvort or ktinga) would be awesome to have. They're icons for pete's sake. We're geeks who love the iconic ships we've seen in the shows.
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# 7
10-18-2011, 09:57 PM
From an RP standpoint, I agree that the Battle Cruiser (and the Assault Cruiser for that matter) should have a more tactically oriented setup.....but they don't.

Why don't they? That would be because Cryptic designed the game and Cryptic does things in a very cryptic way.......go figure....

But in all seriousness, the game's BO and ship setups are flawed on fundamental levels that inhibit expansion of the game, it's almost as if the game was only designed to last a few years with minimal expansion.

In order for the game to improve and move forward, the combat system needs to be either rebuilt from the ground up or completely redesigned. Grim outlook, but I've played enough MMOs and games in general to realize that this game was not built to last for a prolonged period of time. They're patching up part of it by redesigning the skill sheet, but damn do they have a LONG way to go before this game can really improve......hell we'd all be better off if this game was still in the oven and scheduled for release two years from now....

.......wow I got off track.....moving on
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# 8
10-19-2011, 01:59 AM
Well, coming late the this thread I'd nontheless like to add a few things about what battlecruiser seems to mean in Star Trek (as opposed to the real world) compared to their Federation counterparts.
They have less fluff and rather simplistic conditions for the crew as a consequence the Klingons can build ships that can compete with Federation vessels roughly twice their mass
Constitution refit 210000 tons
K't'inga 120000 tons
Galaxy class 4500000 tons
Vor'cha 2238000 tons

as a result they are easier to build and gain an advantage in agility.

The Negh'var as it appeared in DS9 was an exception but then again that Negh'var turned like a brick and had massive firepower that could do with one salvoe what an entire fleet of regular ships could not do: know out the shields of a space station so it was not really comparable to the Negh'var we have in this game.

However this does not mean everything on them should be geared towards tactical functions, we do know Kang had a science officer aboard his D7.

In addition this game assigns ships of certain classes specific functions and Klingon battlecruisers have the same function as their Federation counterparts.

There is another problem associated with an LtC on a cruiser of any kind:
There is aleady the criticism of OPness of the Excelsior out there.
I do not think it would be a wise course of action to compund this by changing an exisitng Klingon ship into something similar or even more OPed.
It would not rebalance the sides when there is something equally OPed available to both, it would only mean that anyone who does not want to gimp himself will end up flying either of these ships while anything else is obsolete.
That's not balance, that rubbish.

I know this is suggestion is likely going to cause a storm of...****...heated responses.
But a cruiser-type ship with a reduced armament in general but an LtC Tactical would IMO be the more balanced way to go.
I think that would have been the prober way to deal with the Excelsior as well: limit it to less armament than the 4/4 of ships of ships like the Galaxy, Sovereign and Negh'var which are not only 80 or more years younger but also about twice her size.

As for making the two current factions and their ship distinct without resorting to anything over the top my proposal would be to give the ships on both sides bonus consoles based on their racial background.
As a result, unlike now, even ships with identical setups would be different.
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# 9
10-19-2011, 02:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Morgomir View Post
I propose a huge K'vort Klingon Battle Cruiser. Basically a large B'rel with upswept wings that fits the role you suggest, to counter the Excelsior.

Wait what about a Negh'var refit? Where was this announced?
The K'Vort as an excelsior counterpart would be, IMO, the best way and had be suggestet several times.
By the way, I'd love it to have kind of a "siege mode" console.... better hull and low turn rate when wings up, less hull and higher turn rate when wings down...
Sure the K'vort has only been seen with wings up on screen, but the whole BOP construction does not make much sense with imobile wings.
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# 10
10-19-2011, 02:24 AM
If anything the KDF Cruisers a lacking in the way of firepower compared to their Federation counter parts. As it stands right now the Federation version refit Excelsior has no equal counterpart in the KDF. Claiming the KDF ships are overpowered just shows how naive some of the players in this game on their knowledge of the other factions ships.
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