Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 21
10-19-2011, 01:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sharkball View Post
By "vessels of the line" surely you mean the Vo'Quv... very surviable, LtC slot... best ship in game
Actually I was reflecting on the ideology of design differences between the federation and the KDF as seen in the genre and how it often portrays the KDF as Tactical first followed by a firm engineering and then science undertones in thier vessel designs.

The Vo'Quv didn't cross my mind becuase I have only found it interesting until late, in leui of its enhancements after a long buff/nerf/ buff process. Nor do I include the Kar'fi.
mainly I was thinking just Battle Cruisers do not reflect the war-ready state that the KDF is often accussed of being single minded in.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 22
10-19-2011, 01:50 PM
I've been stumping for a LtC slot on KDF Battlecruisers since beta. From a Canon standpoint it just doesn't make sense for them to NOT have that.

Most of the screaming of OP for KDF ships has a great deal more to do with the players operating them then the ships them selves.

KDF ships have an entirely different design concept then Federation ships.

BOP's are not escorts.. hey are a Generalist ship with supurb manuverability and OPERATIONAL flexibility.. (thats operational in the military concept of Operational.. it fills in for the lack of many specialized ship classes.. not quite as good as a dedicated class, but it makes up for its lacks in flexibility)

Raptors are not excorts.. if the fill any role slot it is Attack/Strike light cruiser/heavy destroyers but they strongly differ from Federation escort classes in a number of subtle ways.

KDF Battlecruisers are definattly not a counterpart to Federation cruisers. They're more of a hybrid shiop optimized for attack. The iconic D-7/K't'inga with its 4 forward weapon mounts and high manuverability is the template from which ALL KDF battlecruiser should draw on with firepower concentrated forward.
I always thought the Vor'cha should have had 5 forward weapons and 3 aft with a LtC tas BO and dropping the second lower ranked engineering BO entirely. Its supposed to be a ship optimised to attck, attack, ATTACK! a war ship pure and simple. KDF Battlecruisers are not supposed to be TANK ships. The entire concept simply doesn't jibe with KDF ship concepts untill you get to the Carriers.

KDF Carriers are ment to dominate the battlespace, and form the core of a battle group. These are the tank/mobile fortresses of the KDF lineup. They mount a smaller weapons suite which is primarily for self defence.. the Fighters/BOP's they carry is the real firpower of the carriers but unlike wet navy carriers KDF carriers accompany thier launched craft into the battle providing support to the attack with SCI abilities. They pay for their advantages with very poor manuverability and agility. They have several glaring weaknesses which can be exploited by a canny player. But they're still hard to kill. but no worse then any Federation t-5 cruiser in the hands of a competent engineer captain.

Most importantly KDF ships are not ment to mirror federation ships and most definatly should not do so. They're ment to be different. They have weakness and strengths. AT the lower tiers these are strongly seen, and emphisized due to primarily where in the past players who were playing KDF tended to have strong ship combat skill. This factor pretty much put paid to lower tier PvP even though the Federation does have some absolutly excellent lower tier ships, especially the T-2,3,and 4 Science ships which tend to get overlooked by many palyers with thier excellent manuverabilty, solid weapons suite, and heavier shields then thier same tier cruiser counterparts (that 120% shields modifier to SCI ships is rather sweet)

The Klingons have a very old saying "Ships move, tactics are real. Speed is life" and thats not just movement.. thats the ability to act and react. The KDF Honor Guard ship sets reflect this concept strongly.. Very heavy covarient shield, ability to recover from hold situations with engine hot start, increased stealth, increased defence.. and a few other goodies. All of the attributes of the Honor Guard set accentuate the strengths of KDF ships. The Kelrun sets accentuate in a differing fashion and may be THE set to mount for Raptors and BOP's while the Honor Guard set is more appropriate for Battle Cruisers and Carriors, The Pardyme is reflected in the Elite Force set for the Federation and how the Kelrun set effects ship abilities for federation ships.

SO, let get mode "real" and have those LtCommander TAC Bridge Officers on KDF Battle Cruisers..
...........

Where they've always belonged.

Khemaraa Iron Hand
Klingon Black Fleet.
Est. 2000
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 23
10-19-2011, 03:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jermbot View Post
I, as is usually the case, will go far against the grain and say no. The KDF, with its unique ship classifications, does not need these weird LtC hybrid ships.

Sure, the KDF doesn't have a counterpart to the Excelsior-R, the MVAE, and the D'Kyr/Nebula-R, but with exclusive access to carriers and battle cloaking raiders, we don't need them.
Well. It was only a matter of time!

How about THIS for going against the grain....

Take the LTC Tac slot OFF of the Excelsior and replacing it with maybe a LTC Sci slot? That LTC Tac slot does not belong there...it makes the ship OP in its class, and it is a contradiction for the "peace-loving" Federation! But , maybe giving it a Sci slot is more in line with what the Federation is all about, right?

Yep. Thought so. Way too many people enjoy the advantages that the current Excelsior bridge officer layout provides. Besides, Cryptic is unlikely to change it now - it is already "spilled milk." I guess adding a LTC Tac to a KDF vessel...which makes logical sense given the nature of the KDF fleet, the Klingon culture of conflict, and the purpose of the KDF fleet, sort of makes sense, eh?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 24
10-19-2011, 03:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Morgomir View Post
Wait what about a Negh'var refit? Where was this announced?
Check out the F2P Dev Blog #10. In that blog is a chart with ships listed -- both the ones that are in-game, and the ones that are coming. A Neghvar Refit is on that chart -- it is in italics, which means it is in the planning/development stages.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 25
10-19-2011, 05:38 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Khemaraa_Iron_Hand_KBF View Post
BOP's are not escorts.. hey are a Generalist ship with supurb manuverability and OPERATIONAL flexibility.. (thats operational in the military concept of Operational.. it fills in for the lack of many specialized ship classes.. not quite as good as a dedicated class, but it makes up for its lacks in flexibility)
Exactly! A BoP is only as strong as its build and thats usaully only for a limited time unless one is among the greats of this build stuff. Its hardly Death incarnate regardless its name.

Quote:
Raptors are not excorts.. if the fill any role slot it is Attack/Strike light cruiser/heavy destroyers but they strongly differ from Federation escort classes in a number of subtle ways.
Moderatley armored and nimble and fast- they do not seem to me.


Quote:
KDF Battlecruisers are definattly not a counterpart to Federation cruisers. They're more of a hybrid shiop optimized for attack. The iconic D-7/K't'inga with its 4 forward weapon mounts and high manuverability is the template from which ALL KDF battlecruiser should draw on with firepower concentrated forward.
I always thought the Vor'cha should have had 5 forward weapons and 3 aft with a LtC tas BO and dropping the second lower ranked engineering BO entirely. Its supposed to be a ship optimised to attck, attack, ATTACK! a war ship pure and simple. KDF Battlecruisers are not supposed to be TANK ships. The entire concept simply doesn't jibe with KDF ship concepts untill you get to the Carriers.

KDF Carriers are ment to dominate the battlespace, and form the core of a battle group. These are the tank/mobile fortresses of the KDF lineup. They mount a smaller weapons suite which is primarily for self defence.. the Fighters/BOP's they carry is the real firpower of the carriers but unlike wet navy carriers KDF carriers accompany thier launched craft into the battle providing support to the attack with SCI abilities. They pay for their advantages with very poor manuverability and agility. They have several glaring weaknesses which can be exploited by a canny player. But they're still hard to kill. but no worse then any Federation t-5 cruiser in the hands of a competent engineer captain.

Most importantly KDF ships are not ment to mirror federation ships and most definatly should not do so. They're ment to be different. They have weakness and strengths. AT the lower tiers these are strongly seen, and emphisized due to primarily where in the past players who were playing KDF tended to have strong ship combat skill. This factor pretty much put paid to lower tier PvP even though the Federation does have some absolutly excellent lower tier ships, especially the T-2,3,and 4 Science ships which tend to get overlooked by many palyers with thier excellent manuverabilty, solid weapons suite, and heavier shields then thier same tier cruiser counterparts (that 120% shields modifier to SCI ships is rather sweet)

The Klingons have a very old saying "Ships move, tactics are real. Speed is life" and thats not just movement.. thats the ability to act and react. The KDF Honor Guard ship sets reflect this concept strongly.. Very heavy covarient shield, ability to recover from hold situations with engine hot start, increased stealth, increased defence.. and a few other goodies. All of the attributes of the Honor Guard set accentuate the strengths of KDF ships. The Kelrun sets accentuate in a differing fashion and may be THE set to mount for Raptors and BOP's while the Honor Guard set is more appropriate for Battle Cruisers and Carriors, The Pardyme is reflected in the Elite Force set for the Federation and how the Kelrun set effects ship abilities for federation ships.

SO, let get mode "real" and have those LtCommander TAC Bridge Officers on KDF Battle Cruisers..
...........

Where they've always belonged.

Khemaraa Iron Hand
Klingon Black Fleet.
Est. 2000
I agree.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZTempest
Well. It was only a matter of time!

How about THIS for going against the grain....

Take the LTC Tac slot OFF of the Excelsior and replacing it with maybe a LTC Sci slot? That LTC Tac slot does not belong there...it makes the ship OP in its class, and it is a contradiction for the "peace-loving" Federation! But , maybe giving it a Sci slot is more in line with what the Federation is all about, right?

Yep. Thought so. Way too many people enjoy the advantages that the current Excelsior bridge officer layout provides. Besides, Cryptic is unlikely to change it now - it is already "spilled milk." I guess adding a LTC Tac to a KDF vessel...which makes logical sense given the nature of the KDF fleet, the Klingon culture of conflict, and the purpose of the KDF fleet, sort of makes sense, eh?
I say let them keep it and the KDF gets a vessel with a LTC tac slot.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 26
10-19-2011, 08:54 PM
the vorcha should get the excelsior station setup, and the neg var should have a COM tactical, a LTC, LT, ENS engineering, and a LT science. the sovereign should also get that negvar setup.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 27
10-20-2011, 12:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
the vorcha should get the excelsior station setup, and the neg var should have a COM tactical, a LTC, LT, ENS engineering, and a LT science. the sovereign should also get that negvar setup.
How about this, the Vorcha can get the Excelsior station setup, and the Excelsior can have two Dual/ Heavy Cannon slots in the front.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 28
10-22-2011, 07:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZTempest
Quad cannons are going to be the norm for escort-class vessels. Klingon battle cruisers will not be able to mount or use quad cannons...and I do think that quad cannons are more than just cosmetic. I suspect that there is a damage boost in there.

That means that although KDF cruisers can mount cannons, they will fall far short of what an escort , destroyer, or light cruiser can dish out...saying that, I would not be surprised if one of the cruiser refits -- and my guess right now is with the Neghvar Refit that is on the schedule -- as having a LCDR Tac slot.
Now, a couple of days after your post, we can honestly say it is confirmed this is not the case.

http://content.screencast.com/users/...e/Ning_Tao.png

"The Quad Disruptor Cannons scale in effectiveness with your Rank and Grade and may be equipped on any ship that can equip cannons."
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 29
10-22-2011, 11:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
the vorcha should get the excelsior station setup, and the neg var should have a COM tactical, a LTC, LT, ENS engineering, and a LT science. the sovereign should also get that negvar setup.
I'd rather see the Souvereign getting the excelsior setup (or may be slitghtly changed by making the ensign - eng another tac), the Vor'Cha should have... prety much the same... the Negh'va should get the current souvereign setup.... thats at least my opinion..
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 30
10-22-2011, 02:31 PM
Yep apparently Quad cannon can be mounted on quite a number of ship types..

Either way I would certainly not object to several of the large cruisers getting LtC slots. It is logical, and it makes great sense. But sorry, that excelsior is going to have to stick with not mounting dual and quad cannon forward.

*evil grin* Don't worry Starfleet, you can handle it.
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