Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
Hopefully I am not alone on this (maybe I am), but after taking a break from Tribble last night I started to think a little clearer about how F2P will really affect me.

People here seem to focus solely on the monetary aspect of things, minutia that doesnít really affect them, and how mad they are that their playing style will change. I get that Cryptic needs to make money so change is necessary. My thread isnít about that. Itís about the real heart of the issue that no one is really talking about.

F2P is boring.

Consider the following

Missions ĖIn F2P these are now forced progression, so if I donít like a mission or have a difficult time with it, Iím stuck. This gives me nothing to do if I absolutely hate that Devidian mission (or canít complete it). Leveling becomes a boring grind very quick.

Dilithium Cap Ė Right now I can log in do my dailies, get emblems/marks, and go do some explore missions every 30 mins. Now that Iím capped at 8k dilithium, what do I do after I get my ore for the day? Play on the C-point exchange begging for pennies?

Crafting Ė Right now you can waste hours crafting and hunting anomalies. But if your Dilithium is gated, how long is it worth your time to play? This eliminates any interest in the crafting system, which was previously a huge time sink. Result: What will I do to replace all that time I spent hunting anomalies?

STFís Ė While the changes are overall very positive, the result for most of us will be repetitive runs to get the gear we want. Do the same mission 50 times and you start to get bored quickly.

PvP Ė PVP hasnít really changed much since launch. The same that applies for STFís applies here. An influx of new players is nice, but with no major changes this isnít going to keep people around for long.

So what are you adding to replace all time sinks that you removed? Are you guaranteeing that new content will come out every week? Or making new items that cost dilithium on a regular basis? Is the intention to turn STO into a quick in-and-out game like Farmville?

As a gold member, I hate to say it but your dilithium limits and forced mission progression are seriously putting a limit on what I can do in game. Forget the financial impact for a minute and realize that as-is the Tribble model gives me no reason to bother logging in anymore, especially now that my dilithium is refined automatically.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 2
11-04-2011, 08:13 AM
Good post with good points and very little emotional outburst tied to it.

I disagree with some of what you say, but one thing Im in TOTAL agreement with you on is the STF rewards requiring 50 runs just to get one piece of elite STF equipment. that is just absurd. I could barely tolerate the 5 or so runs for each of my toons as it was. If it requires that many runs...I will just not play STFs.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 3
11-04-2011, 08:23 AM
yep.. the time sink of grafting has been shoot in the foot. no matter how much time you spend gathering anomolies you still stuck with a two day wait for dilithium PER SINGLE ITEM to craft at the level cap. going and running STF's is faster... much faster...

PvP.. no change in months some ground maps have had the same wall exploint in them for months unfixed and un addressed. Additional PvP content is desperatly needed.

New economic model. it stinks. It depends far to much on people willing to buy c-points. and them purpously buying a surplus of c-points. Unlikley to actually happen though i could be wrong.

Content.. actuall content. I'm willing to call the doff system both a feature and content. ANd its a great deal of fun. but more mission content is whats needed.

Forced mission progression needs to end before FtP goes live. Its all fine and good for levellng up in a hurry on the test server but thats all its good for.

KDF faction needs a lot of content and expansion before f2p or there is a very good chance f2p release will fall flat on its face. You need the opposition faction fleshed out yesterday.

Pretty much in agreement with the OP.. Unless there is more content in the game at f2p launch its not going to be good..
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 4
11-04-2011, 08:24 AM
It sounds like you don't find the game intrinsically fun to play. That you're only motivated by ... what? Having a "full set of epic gear", and the only reason you can think of to log on every week is if they released a new piece of epic gear every week, for you to add to your collection?

As far as I can tell, the only two things Dilithium is good for is buying/crafting "epic gear" and exchanging for CP to buy C-Store items. Dilithium isn't gating your ability to have fun playing the game.

Re: the STFs, the "epic gear" you "have to grind for" is specifically tailored for people who like to play the STFs. That is: if you don't like playing the STFs, there isn't much call for the gear they drop. And you'd have to be unbelievably unlucky to have to actually play through them the theoretical maximum number of times to get the "full set of epic gear". The drop rates aren't actually that bad.

I think the bottom line is: If you find the game intrinsically fun to play, the changes you mention aren't relevant. If you find playing STO boring and are only motivated by the accumulation of Dilithium/gear, then, sure, the F2P changes make the game less fun for you. Maybe you should consider playing a game you find intrinsically fun to play, where playing is its own reward.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 5
11-04-2011, 08:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kobayashi Maru
So what are you adding to replace all time sinks that you removed? Are you guaranteeing that new content will come out every week? Or making new items that cost dilithium on a regular basis? Is the intention to turn STO into a quick in-and-out game like Farmville?

As a gold member, I hate to say it but your dilithium limits and forced mission progression are seriously putting a limit on what I can do in game. Forget the financial impact for a minute and realize that as-is the Tribble model gives me no reason to bother logging in anymore, especially now that my dilithium is refined automatically.
I am in 100% agreement with you and was thinking the very same thing as I logged off of Tribble this morning to update my Doff missions and headed to work. Was this dStahl's plan seeing as he did move to Zynga and pretty much all the FB games behave this way?

I have posted ad nauseum list of things that would keep players engaged in the game and we do not seem to be heading in that direction. Like this for Example:
  • You do an initial/repeatable mission you get dilithium
  • You get an accolade, you get dilithium
  • You do a daily, you get dilithium
  • You do a fleet action, you get dilithium
  • You do an initial/repeatable sector defense, you get dilithium
  • You do an initial/repeatable patrol, you get dilithium
  • You do an STF, you get dilithium
  • You do doff missions, you get dilithium
  • You do a repeatable exploration mission, you get dilithium

...and this I have abandoned because, well none of it has really been addressed so I feel like I am wasteing my time.

http://forums.startrekonline.com/sho...d.php?t=235914

There are just alot of missed opportunities and misdirections.

But overall, I AGREE WITH YA 100%. It has rapidly become for me (and my 20 or so SWG friends who were planning on coming over to check the game out) the fact that not being able to "play the game the way I want to play it", has been overshadowed by the issue of "is this a game I even want to play".

Time will tell, there are still a couple of months left for Cryptic to hear, understand, and address the concerns and shortcomings.

@Modernevil - The game by itself is mildly intrinsicly fun to play because there is a lack of diversity in things to do (i.e. very few content systems = high repetivity = lack of stimulation and interest), and what to do is what I would call "skeletal". Very few things seem "fleshed out" or have been fleshed out in the months since launch. This is also part of the philisophical problem people are having with the changes so far. Narrowing down the limited diversity in this game and that is not a good thing.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 6
11-04-2011, 09:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by modernevil
It sounds like you don't find the game intrinsically fun to play. That you're only motivated by ... what? Having a "full set of epic gear", and the only reason you can think of to log on every week is if they released a new piece of epic gear every week, for you to add to your collection?

...
It's more an issue of "what do I do now" than getting epic gear.

Believe it or not, I do actually find Tribble fun to play, it's just there is not a lot of "game" to play. I have a backlog of 150k dilithium ore to refine, there's nothing new on the C-store to purchase, STF's are fun the first time, and nothing craftable as I'm waiting on dilithium to refine. the DOFF system is great, but it only keeps me busy for about 15 minutes.

But all of that is on Tribble. I'm looking at this and trying to decide how it's going to impact my Holodeck character. And more importantly, how will it impact the fleetmates I've got lined up to return when F2P hits. With no time sinks, this effectively means the dev's will have to churn our content on a regular basis to make this model sustainable. Or else I'm going to lose my re-joined friends again, probably for good this time.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 7
11-04-2011, 09:53 AM
You forgot to mention that the ability to gather ore is severely gated in and of itself.

You can only get it through doing the special events and power levelling DSE's, and a teeny little bit from Doffs.

You can only get it through explore dailies at the lower levels.

You cannot get it from the story and patrol missions, nor from the regular DSE's.

This isn't a problem at cap, because you can grind numerous dailies, but at lower levels, it's painful because by the time you have enough to outfit your ship, you get promoted.

"Time-based currency," my foot. Why aren't Cryptic giving dilithium to the things that people spend the most time on? Why is the limit 8k a day? Remove it for Golds!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 8
11-04-2011, 09:54 AM
Having the missions in a chain is actually good, but right now it's messed up as far as level and rewards (which aren't scaling, although enemies do scale.)

There's not enough dilithium given out. A sane player would never spend any until max level, and what fun is that?

Crafting...forget it. Hunt for stupid anomalies AND spend dilithium? No.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
I've gotta agree with this, at least how it stands on teh Tribble so far.

Boring, grindy, almost like a second job but without the paycheck.

I can't even be bothered to log on to DOFF anymore.

Thanks to the accelerated leveling plus mission chaining with level-appropriate npcs and level-inappropriate rewards and drops, it's no longer worth what little time I DO have to run missions. Still hovering around Mid-Romulan at Vice Admiral, don't think I'll go any further up the chain.

Crafting for friends, fun, and profit no longer seems to be a going concern, so no reason to log on Tribble for that.

If I run one more SFA event I swear I'll drive up to Los Gatos with a halberd and run amok. That and having yet another "midterm" via ATM machine at SFA.

Mirror Event is kinda fun, even though sometimes it takes quite a while for enough people to make a PUG 5-man team. I suppose this was planned-- can't have people grinding teh mad pimpin' Dilithium G-Stacks too quickly or easily, same as the unmentioned reducing of particle drops from 3 per isolated particle scans to 2.

So yeah. As someone once said, I'm not paying time and money for the "privilege" of having a non-paying second-job*--

er, I mean, "testing" F2P for the new hypothetical Communist Chinese gentlemen overlords--

er, I mean, validating a steaming pile of FAIL--

er, well, you know what I mean.

*yeah, I know if I follow the gold-farmer model, I'd get some sort of real moneys-type value due to some arcane mathematical fallout from the Dilithium Exchange-- maybe enough of a pittance to keep some underpaid, under-aged factory worker in an outsourced third-world manufacturing facility with no OSHA compliance happy, but for me, not so much.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 10
11-04-2011, 11:21 AM
It's nothing new really. STO needs more content, pure and simple. Perhaps with an influx of players who would spend some money, Cryptic will dedicate more manpower towards the Foundry (which will allow us to create more interesting content on our own) and continued development of actual story-based content, i.e. more missions and Featured Episodes.

Without more content, STO would stagnate (it already has for some anyway) into a gear-fest and as a F2P that very well could be the last nail in the coffin.
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