Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 521
10-23-2011, 10:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Timelord_Victorious
To give some constructive feedback:
Someone in this long list of backlash suggested a variable Dilithium component to crafting.
Between 0 and 100% depending on how close you are to the full recipe.

I would fully support this. It would not only be a fair compromise I'd call it an improvement of the current crafting system.

The dedicated crafters, solo and fleet, could continue to do what they like and every impatient soul can have his/her shortcut to the desired gear or outright buy it if they don't feel like grinding for anomalies.
This is a way to add Dilithium to crafting that I could totally stand behind. Rare particle traces are worth X% of the total Dilithium cost of a completed item, regular worth Y%, Schematic is Still required!

On top of this, if you have none of the components, this is a great way to spend Dilithium to get an alternate weapon configuration from what you can get at the Dilithium vendor at ESD/First City.

Another way to integrate dilithium into crafting I could totally stand behind would be something similar to the Reforging system in WOW (ducks behind a cover shield). Hear me out now, before yelling about me bringing up WoW
You could pay an extra Dilithium cost and change one of the modifiers on the crafted weapon. That Anitproton Dual Heavy Cannon with [CritH][DMG]x2 ? You could change one of those Damage modifiers to a [CritD] or [Acc] or [Crith] again. Want to get rid of both [DMG] modifiers ? Then pay the cost twice. Want to make it [Acc]x3 ? pay it 3 times, once for each modifier you want to change.

This system could be added in several ways. First, you could change item bonuses for a lesser Dilithium cost while crafting the item. Second, you could change the bonuses after the fact for a greater cost at a NPC who will 'remaster' or 'reforge' the item. These costs could also be based on the item's MK level. A reasonable cost might be 100 Dilithium per item level, per modifier changed; half that cost if the change is made while crafting the item. Therefor, changing one modifier on a MK XI cannon would cost 1100. Changing two modifiers 2200, and so on. If those 2 modifiers were changed while crafting the item, it'd only cost 1100.

This way, there's still potential Dilithium sinks in *and* outside of crafting, Cryptic will be adding features to crafting rather than making it more restrictive, and I would suspect the player base would be much more receptive to a system like this. It's guaranteed that your more serious players, like your PVPers would also be using the "reforging." Finally, by having an option to change the modifiers in AND outside of crafting allows those who are not crafters to still sink their dilithium, and have access to the system, so it'd be a win/win change for everyone.

If anyone's proposed this before, sorry, I'm not trying to copy your idea, I just thought of it after reading Timelord_Victorious's post.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 522
10-23-2011, 10:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heretic
The truth is, the game is undergoing a period of massive change, and even in the best of circumstances that will leave people uneasy and sensitive. There are a lot of factors going into the decisions being made, and a lot of very hard decisions being made to accommodate an array of requirements and ramifications. People are - quite understandably - upset about a lot of the changes.

There's no denying this beta has been pretty bloody, but the team really is trying its best to navigate through extremely complicated waters. It isn't always going to succeed on the first (or second) try, but that's why we have made this beta as long as we have, so we can give ourselves the best chance possible to arrive at at least tolerable solutions for all involved.
I come from a Web System development background and understand the amount of change you guys are doing isn't trivial! I'm impressed that you and a few others are continuing to engage the community openly asking for feedback on the new features that are being developed given the time constraints you are probably working against.

I've learned that no matter the how technically/financially restrictive a system may be, involving clients upfront and getting their input for solutions allows them to feel invested in the final design and also allows them to understand the work that is being done to accommodate their needs/wants.

It's a shame how crafting was modified seemingly without regard for what people have requested since closed beta 2 years ago.....

Anyway, keep up the hard work and the communication, it'll pay off in the long run!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 523
10-23-2011, 10:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heretic
Actually, I've been both a systems lead and a lead designer on other projects here at Cryptic and elsewhere, but those were on projects I had been on from the beginning. When I came on STO, I knew squat about the way the team had set things up, so wasn't in a position to be a lead - I like to know what I am doing before I start offering direction.

In fairness, while I do communicate a lot, it is an enormous effort to do both that and the rest of my job. I do, however, appreciate people's kind words.

The truth is, the game is undergoing a period of massive change, and even in the best of circumstances that will leave people uneasy and sensitive. There are a lot of factors going into the decisions being made, and a lot of very hard decisions being made to accommodate an array of requirements and ramifications. People are - quite understandably - upset about a lot of the changes.

There's no denying this beta has been pretty bloody, but the team really is trying its best to navigate through extremely complicated waters. It isn't always going to succeed on the first (or second) try, but that's why we have made this beta as long as we have, so we can give ourselves the best chance possible to arrive at at least tolerable solutions for all involved.
The fact that you guys are willing to try, and willing to admit that it's been bloody, is one of the reasons I stuck with you guys so long. I'm hoping that by the time all this testing is over, the game is in good shape. I believe you guys are more than capable of achieving that, and while there are (naturally) some concerns, i'm always willing to give the benefit of the doiubt.

and thanks for all your hard work. the doff system is a work of art.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 524
10-23-2011, 11:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heretic
snip
There's no denying this beta has been pretty bloody,
snip
I vote Heretic for understatement of the year. :p

But seriously, thanks for popping in here to basically say "hi" as well as a big thanks for all the communication do you with us.

Know that it is appreciated.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 525
10-23-2011, 11:45 PM
I seem to remember a while back there was talk of completely revamping the crafting system. One part in particular was "the ability to choose ground weapon geometry." As I understand it, that was to mean that we could choose what our ground weapons looked like. (ie make a phaser rifle look like they did on TNG, or VOY, or First Contact) I don't know how many times I have equipped a polaron rifle hoping beyond hope that it would actually look like the Jem'Hadar Polaron Rifles that the Jem'Hadar and Breen use, but alas, it is always this god awful looking purple monstrosity. The antiproton ground weapons look like they came straight from a comic book. We STILL have no means of obtaining the klingon D'k'tagh, Mek'leth, the Jem'Hadar Kar'takin, nor the Andorian melee weapons!

You want to add dilithium to crafting? Here's my proposal. Leave crafting as it is on Holodeck, but add another optional feature: The ability to make it look how we want it to by being able to select from 3-4 visual design options. Now, make the design feature cost dilithuim to use! There ya go, we get to keep things as is, you get your dilithium infusion into crafting, and We the Players can choose if we want to use it or not. This also gives us the continued ability to be able to craft for our fleets, and encourages those who haven't leveled crafting a reason to do so for personal customization.

Now with all these ways your are putting up for spending dilithium, why not at least double the dilithium daily refining cap? 8k per day is honestly too low, 12-16k per day is more reasonable.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 526
10-23-2011, 11:50 PM
So crafting is over, for anyone but yourself....I mean, why would you spend the most needed resource, to make someone else, when you can't get Dilithium back from them in exchange. Doesn't give ANY incentive at all
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 527
10-23-2011, 11:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heretic
Actually, I've been both a systems lead and a lead designer on other projects here at Cryptic and elsewhere, but those were on projects I had been on from the beginning. When I came on STO, I knew squat about the way the team had set things up, so wasn't in a position to be a lead - I like to know what I am doing before I start offering direction.

In fairness, while I do communicate a lot, it is an enormous effort to do both that and the rest of my job. I do, however, appreciate people's kind words.

The truth is, the game is undergoing a period of massive change, and even in the best of circumstances that will leave people uneasy and sensitive. There are a lot of factors going into the decisions being made, and a lot of very hard decisions being made to accommodate an array of requirements and ramifications. People are - quite understandably - upset about a lot of the changes.

There's no denying this beta has been pretty bloody, but the team really is trying its best to navigate through extremely complicated waters. It isn't always going to succeed on the first (or second) try, but that's why we have made this beta as long as we have, so we can give ourselves the best chance possible to arrive at at least tolerable solutions for all involved.
You, Sir, are a class act.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 528
10-24-2011, 12:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Necrion
This is a way to add Dilithium to crafting that I could totally stand behind. Rare particle traces are worth X% of the total Dilithium cost of a completed item, regular worth Y%, Schematic is Still required!

On top of this, if you have none of the components, this is a great way to spend Dilithium to get an alternate weapon configuration from what you can get at the Dilithium vendor at ESD/First City.

Another way to integrate dilithium into crafting I could totally stand behind would be something similar to the Reforging system in WOW (ducks behind a cover shield). Hear me out now, before yelling about me bringing up WoW
You could pay an extra Dilithium cost and change one of the modifiers on the crafted weapon. That Anitproton Dual Heavy Cannon with [CritH][DMG]x2 ? You could change one of those Damage modifiers to a [CritD] or [Acc] or [CritD] again. Want to get rid of both ? Then pay the cost twice. Want to make it [Acc]x3 ? pay it 3 times, once for each modifier you want to change.

This system could be added in several ways. First, you could change item bonuses for a lesser Dilithium cost while crafting the item. Second, you could change the bonuses after the fact for a greater cost at a NPC ?

This way, there's still potential Dilithium sinks in *and* outside of crafting, Cryptic will be adding features to crafting rather than making it more restrictive, and I would suspect the player base would be much more receptive to a system like this. Also, it's guaranteed that your more serious players, like your PVPers would also be using the "reforging," so it'd be a win/win change.

If anyone's proposed this before, sorry, I'm not trying to copy your idea, I just thought of it after reading Timelord_Victorious's post.
This is a very good idea, I would fully support this, in all honesty. I might even actually spend Dilithium in it if it were done like this.

Grinding for particles is something I loathe, that's why I only have one crafting char.

If I could toss in some dilithium and not have to hunt for particles, especially exotics, it would be fantastic.

The only people who would lose majorly in that deal are the ones who sell particles on the exchange. :p

Well, depending on how much dilithium it costs, and how it relates to the particle prices. on the exchange market.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 529
10-24-2011, 12:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CivilPhil
I vote Heretic for understatement of the year. :p

But seriously, thanks for popping in here to basically say "hi" as well as a big thanks for all the communication do you with us.

Know that it is appreciated.
Yep, very much appreciated.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 530
10-24-2011, 01:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katic View Post
Coming from you Palmera, that is high praise indeed. (Not being sarcastic, really, thank you!)

I'm not sure of the cross-posting rules since they've gone back to the Cryptic Forum Usage Guidelines, the closest thing I can find is under Spamming, and it says the following is an example of Spam:



Seeing as how this thread is in response to the Path to F2P Dev Blog, and there's several threads in STO Discussion about the crafting changes (one of which I linked as my inspiration for this idea) I could probably get away with posting a new Thread to the Tribble Feedback forum pitching it, but it would likely get little traffic since the Dilithium-Crafting fiasco..

Maybe General Feedback?
indeed i am a hard up no bullspita kinda guy. but everyone should know by now that its only cause im overly opinated. most 'true' canadians are. naturally thou canada is hated by everyone on these games for that, and cause of our ... quebeccers...

if something makes sense ill say yes, if something doesnt ill tell you. if it makes sense and i dont like it, ill tell you. and ill always give a reason.

i like the idea, it makes sense in many ways.
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:08 AM.