Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 21
10-21-2011, 05:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hominid View Post
Star Grind online?

You want gear for you for ship? Grind Dilithium

You want to outfit your cap and crew? Grind Dilithium

You want to craft items? Grind the stupid anolomy crap. Oh and grind dilithium.

Seriously? This is going to ruin the game for alot of people who don't have 10 hours a day to play the game or can't log in EVERYDAY. Some people have jobs and other commitments. This F2P may draw in new people but how many old players will be left? Basically giving us the shaft.

Thanks Cryptic.
Grind?

ONLY FOR THOSE WHO REFUSE TO BUY CPOINTS.

Thats their trick eh?

They want us to buy and trade cpoints.

This is disgusting!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 22
10-21-2011, 05:49 AM
Let me start with my belief that requiring dilithium for crafting is idiotic and will only discourage new players from attempting it. Now let's get into the why of that.

Assuming you are a good little drone and do all the story missions (another bad idea, taking away the freedom of choice in how we level, but that's another rant) you will unlock the breen missions not long before/ after you hit VA. Now these missions provide you with the cluster torpedo, shields, deflector, and engine. All free of dilithium. But so what? You still need ship weapons, personal shields, and ground weapons. That is correct. Now enter the devidian series with its purple personal shields and blue ship and ground weapons.

Armed with these less than stellar but good enough weapons and equipment you can now start grinding the STFs for the Borg gear, which is also free of dilithium last I checked. So please, explain to me why I would ever spend my dilithium to craft?

Logic dictates that the dilithium cost be removed from crafting and, if necessary, a different gating mechanic put in place.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 23
10-21-2011, 06:28 AM
Seeing all the negativity about Dilithium being added to the Crafting system made me want to check it out, too see if it is really as bad as people think it is. So I logged onto Tribble and opened my 'R&D Progress' window, and here is what I found.

Under 'Personal Equipment' I see Dilithium for Personal Shields, Armor, and Weapons. The highest price I see is 7,945 for Purple Mk XI gear. I've been told there is Dilithium on Kits, but I am not seeing it.

For 'Ship Weapons' I see Dilithium for each type of weapon, and the highest price is 15,834.

Next comes 'Starship Components' which again has Dilithium for everything, but seems more diverse depending on what your crafting. The highest price I see for Consoles is 7,945, while the highest price for Shields, Deflectors, or Engines is 18,150.

Lastly, we have Schematics which have no Dilithium.

Now for a little perspective, with a bit of math. I looked to see what missions I could do to get Dilithium and how much Dilithium they gave, here is what I found.

Fleet Action Daily = 1440 Dilithium Ore
Aiding the Deferi = 1440 Dilithium Ore
Emancipation = 480 Dilithium Ore
Rescue Deferi Captives = 480 Dilithium Ore
Investigate Officer Reports = Dilithium Ore Container (1440 Dilithium Ore?)
Traelus System - Satellite Repair = 480 Dilithium Ore
Sh'mar - Distress Signal = 480 Dilithium
PvP Daily = 1440 Dilithium Ore
Explore Strange New Worlds = 1440 Dilithium Ore
Chart Cluster Daily = 1440 Dilithium Ore
STFs = 1100 Dilithium Ore
Events = 1100 Dilithium Ore (Not Sure)

Total = 12,280 Dilithium Ore

Of course that's only if you do all of them, if you don't do the ones that involve other people or you can do a couple times a day, STF/Events, the number is: 7,680 Dilithium Ore. Of course the biggest hurtle is the limit on how much Dilithium Ore you can Refine, and it is the Refined Dilithium you need to craft.

So using the numbers above, and I am using the 7,680 Dilithium Ore, this is how long it would take to craft for each section:

Personal Equipment: 1-2 Days
Starship Weapons: 2-3 Days
Starship Components: 2-3 Days

Looking at that, it does not seem that bad. In fact, it looks the same for the Emblem grind now. But there are other consequences that I will get too shortly. Now, lets go look and see how much Dilithium it cost to buy this stuff from a Vendor.

Personal Weapons: 11,350
Personal Armor: 7,555
Personal Shield: 7,555
Ship Weapons: 22,620
Ship Equipment: 45,350
Consoles: 11,350

So it would take the following amount of time to grind Ore and Refine it:

Personal Weapons: 1-2 Days
Personal Armor: 1 Day
Personal Shield: 1 Day
Starship Weapons: 2-3 Days
Starship Equipment: 5-6 Days
Consoles: 1-2 Days

From this it looks like, with the exception of Starship Equipment, you don't really save any more time in grinding for Dilithium, you just don't have the addition of Data Sample grinding. Further, these changes make it impossible for a small group of people to craft for a fleet, especially if you have a large fleet. Everyone will basically have to be their own crafter.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 24
10-21-2011, 06:28 AM
I'm adding this to as many dilithium crafting comments as I can find as I truly think it could be a solution:

Since my last post I've been giving crafting some thought.... and here's what i think should have been done:

All crafting should require:

1) Common samples to create the starting item (or THE item if you want to craft a common item)
for example:
10 reds create a schematic
Schematic plus 10 energy reds creates MkI ground shield (higher level samples create higher Mk items)
OR
Schematic plus 20 energy reds creates MkI Ship Shield

2) Rare samples to add characteristics, for example:
Anyon adds [DMG]
Antithoron adds [CAP]
etc
so you can choose what characteristics your crafted item receives

If you HAVE to add dilithium into the mix, BAN samples from the exchange and make them purchaseable for Dilithium from the vendor in Memory Alpha (meaning people have to continue going to MA after they find a way to let us craft on our ships/starbases)

edit: also this means that there is no need for a dilithium reward on the exploration missions
edit: edit: Thinking about it, schematics could be purchaseable for Dilithium too, problem 1/2 solved

This way Dilithium is NOT compulsory, but continues to be the pay to win element they want it to be (C-Point exchange)

Comments?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 25
10-21-2011, 06:33 AM
If they think crafting is too easy: Have crafting demand time - there is already a progress bar. Sell Dilithium gear to make crafting quicker again.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 26
10-21-2011, 08:32 AM
Fleet Crafters I have a question. Why are you grinding rare particle traces to build stuff for fleet mates? Why aren't they storing up what you need in the bank? I know it doesn't matter now since crafting is dead, but I was just wondering why you'd put up with that treatment.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 27
10-21-2011, 08:38 AM
The only thing I dislike about the dilith req is the fact that (just like holodeck) it seems by the time I can craft level appropriate gear, Im already one or two levels above the level of the gear. For example by the time I can craft stuff suitable for a Lt. Commander Im pushing Captain.

This has made crafting almost useless for me. And now with gear like the Aegis systems being outdone by doff gear, or gear you can get from FEs (like the Reman shield)... why would I want to spend the 10's of thousands of dilith, rare samples.... to make the Aegis?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 28
10-21-2011, 12:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SupremeLegate View Post

Fleet Action Daily = 1440 Dilithium Ore
Aiding the Deferi = 1440 Dilithium Ore
Emancipation = 480 Dilithium Ore
Rescue Deferi Captives = 480 Dilithium Ore
Investigate Officer Reports = Dilithium Ore Container (1440 Dilithium Ore?)
Traelus System - Satellite Repair = 480 Dilithium Ore
Sh'mar - Distress Signal = 480 Dilithium
PvP Daily = 1440 Dilithium Ore
Explore Strange New Worlds = 1440 Dilithium Ore
Chart Cluster Daily = 1440 Dilithium Ore
STFs = 1100 Dilithium Ore
Events = 1100 Dilithium Ore (Not Sure)

Total = 12,280 Dilithium Ore
Your Math is good. BUT there is some variables to your system. Not everyone enjoys PVP, I do not. the chances of getting a group together to get a fleet to actually complete a Fleet event is going to be hard. Same as with the STFS, and Events. Unless they can actually work together, get the Event optional complete, and work together as a team knowing what to do, have the right set up is very hard.

STFS while they are more simple, I have in the past been un able to even find a group ABLE to complete Infected Space. and that is on normal difficulty. And the issue is you have everyone who has their own idea of HOW it is to be done, Focus entirely on the gate ignoring the transmitters and healing stations which repair the gate. and if you don't completed infected space with in 30 minutes you LOOSE the Dilithium and are forced to go through it all over again gettoing the chance to get the same players who think they know what has to be done, go after the gate/no the transmitters and dividing forces in an in effective way. ADDED to the fact that the STF is restricted to RA LH 5, as are a few others.....

The amount of Dilithium is reduced.... and crafting what you need is harder and longer. I applaud you for your effort and math. But it assumes that /everything/ goes off with out a hitch and you always succeed at STFS with a group that is a team. And actually getting such a team that can work flawlessly together, is like how the current Holodeck runs are, you deal with a PUG, or a close circle of friends who know the mission inside and out.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 29
10-21-2011, 01:07 PM
just reduce the f**** price to a reasonable one...

say that u need 3-4 days to outfit a single ship (roughly 20 items) bringing it to about 1500 dilithium / item

because as it was said before:

crafted items r crap. now u want to make it impractical to craft. everyone will want emblem weapons which BARELY cost more (space weapons cost... oh yeah, THE SAME)

cryptic. GO YELL AT PERFECT WORLD!

what will now happen:

everyone will grind stfs for mk xii weapons and... basically, STAY WITH THEM, because they are BY FAR THE BEST WEAPONS in the game

so:

reduce crafting prices
make emblem weapons mk xii

OR

face the face that dilithium will be worthless.

or u know, get an economist that ACTUALLY understands something
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 30
10-21-2011, 01:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadow_mane2001 View Post
Your Math is good. BUT there is some variables to your system. Not everyone enjoys PVP, I do not. the chances of getting a group together to get a fleet to actually complete a Fleet event is going to be hard. Same as with the STFS, and Events. Unless they can actually work together, get the Event optional complete, and work together as a team knowing what to do, have the right set up is very hard.

STFS while they are more simple, I have in the past been un able to even find a group ABLE to complete Infected Space. and that is on normal difficulty. And the issue is you have everyone who has their own idea of HOW it is to be done, Focus entirely on the gate ignoring the transmitters and healing stations which repair the gate. and if you don't completed infected space with in 30 minutes you LOOSE the Dilithium and are forced to go through it all over again gettoing the chance to get the same players who think they know what has to be done, go after the gate/no the transmitters and dividing forces in an in effective way. ADDED to the fact that the STF is restricted to RA LH 5, as are a few others.....

The amount of Dilithium is reduced.... and crafting what you need is harder and longer. I applaud you for your effort and math. But it assumes that /everything/ goes off with out a hitch and you always succeed at STFS with a group that is a team. And actually getting such a team that can work flawlessly together, is like how the current Holodeck runs are, you deal with a PUG, or a close circle of friends who know the mission inside and out.
That's why I removed them from my calculations, the 7,680 Dilithium Ore comes from the following:

Aiding the Deferi = 1440 Dilithium Ore
Emancipation = 480 Dilithium Ore
Rescue Deferi Captives = 480 Dilithium Ore
Investigate Officer Reports = Dilithium Ore Container (1440 Dilithium Ore?)
Traelus System - Satellite Repair = 480 Dilithium Ore
Sh'mar - Distress Signal = 480 Dilithium
Explore Strange New Worlds = 1440 Dilithium Ore
Chart Cluster Daily = 1440 Dilithium Ore

Total = 7,680 Dilithium Ore

Further, exactly where you get the Dilithium is a moot point as you can only refine 8,000 Dilithium Ore per day. So regardless of how you get the Dilithium, it will still take the shown number of days to get the item you seek.
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