Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 41
10-25-2011, 01:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heezdedjim
If you slot one DOFF with this bonus, then after each use of BFI you have a 20% chance (green quality) that the proc will fire. You have a 30% chance if you slot one blue quality DOFF with the same proc.
actually 20% is from white doffs, 30%from greens, 40% from blues, and (if they exist) 50% from purples.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 42
10-25-2011, 02:10 AM
Each Duty Officer slotted is rolled for separately; if you have multiple Duty Officers of the same type slotted, it is possible for more than one to proc at once (so, yes, you could get more than one extra Gravity Well, for example). Mathematically, this doesn't happen very often though, especially with lower quality duty officers.

Not all specialities can have more than one slotted at once. My rule of thumb is if something can't be made both good/interesting with one and not overpowered with three, it gets limited to only having one slotted at a time. I also don't want useless abilities, so getting this balance right can be an issue.

Keep in mind also that many of these are simply proc chances, not guarantees.

There hasn't been a lot of time internally to run everything through every build and iteration; this is the reason this is on the test server.

I am absolutely sure there are some imbalances among these abilities, so when you try them out and see something that seems either under or overpowered, please post a thread on it in the Active Roster section on the Tribble boards in a productive fashion with as many details as you can and I will make sure to look into it.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 43
10-25-2011, 02:50 AM
I just read Heretic's post and the first post, but here's my first thought I had back when I slotted my first DOff to ship duty a day or so after Tribble launched.

To take advantage of the math, you have to utilize a DOff ability which is associated with a BOff ability that has a very short cooldown time.

For example there is a DOff ability (Damage Control Engineer) that reduces the cooldown time on all emergency power to subsystem abilities, they have a cooldown of 45 secs if skilled up. So every 45s you have I believe a 20 / 40 / 60% chance of the recharge time coming down, depending on the DOff quality. If you have two BOff abilities chained, using DOffs could allow you to constantly have an emergency power to subsystem ability in use, there's the 15s GCD to be aware of thought. However this does mean that your guaranteed a chance for the DOff abilities to proc every 45s, and if the BOff abilities cooldown goes down, the time between each chance for the DOff abilities to proc goes down.

Also, combine those Damage Control Engineers with Warp Core Engineers who have a chance to temp. improve your ship's weapon, shield, engine, aux power levels on use of any emergency power levels and you've got something special.

The OP's example, using Brace for Impact III and the DOff abilities to boost shields is cool, but is it efficient when the DOff abilities only have a chance to proc every 60 seconds?

Of course there's other BOff abilities out there that have even shorter cooldown times that are linked with DOff abilities.

One DOff ability I'm considering trying out is the Technician Engineer, which has a chance to reduce the cooldown time for all bridge officer abilities when aux to emergency battery is used. This one caught my eye specifically because I don't know many players who use aux to emergency battery. I think Cryptic looked at the powers and saw this one was not very popular, which is why this DOff ability was created and it's a pretty awesome DOff ability math wise.

Anyway got to pop out, will read more of the thread later.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 44
10-25-2011, 02:58 AM
Quote:
If you have two BOff abilities chained, using DOffs could allow you to constantly have an emergency power to subsystem ability in use, there's the 15s GCD to be aware of thought. However this does mean that your guaranteed a chance for the DOff abilities to proc every 45s, and if the BOff abilities cooldown goes down, the time between each chance for the DOff abilities to proc goes down.
Well, you can already chain 2 identical or 2 pairs of identical emergency powers. I don't think the chance will ever be reliable enough to make people rely on this option when it comes to their Emergency Power to Shields.

Quote:
aux to emergency battery is used. This one caught my eye specifically because I don't know many players who use aux to emergency battery. I
Not many use it, and the Aux to Batteries skill shares a cooldown with EptS, and is a high rank ability - and is pretty much useless on its own. So I don't expect it to be very relevant either.

I think the Brace for Impact, Evasive Buffs and the Emergency Power Energy Level buffs are some of the more interesting ones, as is the Gravity Well thing (for people t hat use GW ). But as Heretic said - balance discussions for DOFF abilities on this best in the appropriate forum.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 45
10-25-2011, 03:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alecto View Post
One DOff ability I'm considering trying out is the Technician Engineer, which has a chance to reduce the cooldown time for all bridge officer abilities when aux to emergency battery is used. This one caught my eye specifically because I don't know many players who use aux to emergency battery. I think Cryptic looked at the powers and saw this one was not very popular, which is why this DOff ability was created and it's a pretty awesome DOff ability math wise.
Yeah, sadly attaching an interesting power to a useless power is only going to make people wish they could use the interesting power; it's not going to justify slotting the useless one (unless they take the hint that nobody is using it, figure out why, and maybe un-useless it).
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 46
10-25-2011, 04:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heezdedjim
If you slot one DOFF with this bonus, then after each use of BFI you have a 20% chance (green quality) that the proc will fire. You have a 30% chance if you slot one blue quality DOFF with the same proc.

In this particular case, you can slot up to three DOFFs with the same proc; so you get three 30% chances, one after another. One rolls, and if it fails, the second rolls, and if it fails, the third rolls. (Not all of the DOFFs with active roster abilities can be stacked this way; for those that can, the maximum you can slot is three of the the same specializtion, out of five slots total).

Assuming you slot three DOFFs, each of which gives its own separate 30% chance for a proc, the binomial distribution tells us that the cumulative probability of at least one firing is 65%. So if you slot one of them, you get a 30% chance for that proc. If you slot three (blue) DOFFs, you get a 65% chance for that proc (each time you use BFI).
So if I use 3 blue DOffs = 65% chance one of them working when I hit BFI

Fix is simple then - limit the DOffs to a stack number of one for this DOff ability.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 47
10-25-2011, 04:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heezdedjim
I'm not sure what you mean here. The proc only gets rolled after the ability it's keyed to is used. So whatever the CD on Brace for Impact is; that's the minimum time before you could use BFI again and get another chance for this proc to go off.
I was curiuos if the DOff proc itself had a CD or if after its use it is availible to go again right away.

Frankly I'm not feeling the huge amount of concern the DOff system seems to be generating, though I do find it fun.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 48
10-25-2011, 07:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roach View Post
So if I use 3 blue DOffs = 65% chance one of them working when I hit BFI. Fix is simple then - limit the DOffs to a stack number of one for this DOff ability.
Yes. As Heretic said; if something seems OP when stacked, then it goes in the pile of "only one of these allowed." If it's ok when more than one is used, then you can stack up to three. I'm not convinced an extra TSS on BFI is OP even when stacked three high, given that it's gated by the cooldown on BFI (and is still just a chance that it will fire, not an on-demand ability).
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 49
10-25-2011, 07:45 AM
4 DOFFS providing a 50% chance = 94% chance of working. Hmmm.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 50
10-25-2011, 08:08 AM
I think one DOFF that really needs to be looked at is the Projectile Armory Officers. Proc is -2 seconds to Torpedo Launchers. Even with3 white DOFFS, insanely fun with Photon Torpedoes. I can't imagine what it's like with 3 top end Projectile Armory Officers. This proc needs to be looked at very carefully.

Looking at the cool down timeers, it seems that the proc may be happened across the board when any Torpedo is launched. I've seen timers jump in the middle of their current cool downs. Although this may explained by the game server resolving the procs on it's end and sending the updates to the game client., And I'm seeing initially what the game clients thinks is the cool down (6 seconds), and then the game client receiving the updated cool down (4, 2 or 0 seconds) and the cool down time jumping to the current net cool down time
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