Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 51
10-25-2011, 08:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Naevius
4 DOFFS providing a 50% chance = 94% chance of working. Hmmm.
You can't slot four of any single specialty. The cap is 3 at most, and some are limited to 1 only.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 52
10-25-2011, 09:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fuzun View Post
I think one DOFF that really needs to be looked at is the Projectile Armory Officers. Proc is -2 seconds to Torpedo Launchers. Even with3 white DOFFS, insanely fun with Photon Torpedoes. I can't imagine what it's like with 3 top end Projectile Armory Officers. This proc needs to be looked at very carefully.

Looking at the cool down timeers, it seems that the proc may be happened across the board when any Torpedo is launched. I've seen timers jump in the middle of their current cool downs. Although this may explained by the game server resolving the procs on it's end and sending the updates to the game client., And I'm seeing initially what the game clients thinks is the cool down (6 seconds), and then the game client receiving the updated cool down (4, 2 or 0 seconds) and the cool down time jumping to the current net cool down time
Whats the Proc chance or is it a passive?
Does it effect the GCD or just the individual CDs of a single torp array?

I ask becuase I wonder if the fear of OP is driving us to view things a skewed.
Many thought the Quads where going to be OP even before release and yet they suck in compariosn and seem overly handicapped.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 53
10-25-2011, 09:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roach View Post
Whats the Proc chance or is it a passive?
Does it effect the GCD or just the individual CDs of a single torp array?

I ask becuase I wonder if the fear of OP is driving us to view things a skewed.
Many thought the Quads where going to be OP even before release and yet they suck in compariosn and seem overly handicapped.

I thought quads for the most part were slightly higher "Base" Damage due to 3 x [dmg] modifier, it is more or less a eye candy console
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 54
10-25-2011, 10:43 AM
From the DOff listing spreadsheets I'm working on (feel free to copy the data for your own uses but know that this is still very much a work in progress, which is in-turn based off another work in progress ), it appears so far that most slottable active duty specializations have a limit of three of the same type.

Here's the list I've got so far of specializations that are capped at 1 active at a time:
  • Armory Officer
  • Fabrication Engineer
  • Matter-Antimatter Specialist
  • Biochemist
  • Sensors Officer

I haven't found any DOff types yet that have a maximum of 2 active at a time yet.

(Also at the bottom of those spreadsheets are more detailed descriptions of the powers and proc percentages as I've found them)
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 55
10-25-2011, 11:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heretic
Each Duty Officer slotted is rolled for separately; if you have multiple Duty Officers of the same type slotted, it is possible for more than one to proc at once (so, yes, you could get more than one extra Gravity Well, for example). Mathematically, this doesn't happen very often though, especially with lower quality duty officers.
Mathematically the only thing Cryptic should be concerned about is the highest quality duty officers. It won't take long before every veteran PvPer has an all-purple min-maxed crew.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heretic
Not all specialities can have more than one slotted at once. My rule of thumb is if something can't be made both good/interesting with one and not overpowered with three, it gets limited to only having one slotted at a time. I also don't want useless abilities, so getting this balance right can be an issue.
Good sentiment...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heretic
so, yes, you could get more than one extra Gravity Well, for example
...but the issue is that you have a long way to go before you understand balance.

Multiple gravity wells are extremely powerful so this DOFF should definitely be limited to one, and at very rare the chances should still be <40% -- even 33% would be pushing it. Two gravity wells properly placed can lead to the death of an entire team, and three grav wells is just abusive. Two people running GW3 with 3 Doffs that buff GW is going to be an absolute monstrosity.

As one of the "balance guys" you should implicitly understand balance issues that are this obvious. If you regularly played PvP there wouldn't be a problem. However, if you want to keep your head in the sand you should at least enlist the help of a few of the top PvPers to help you, because what you are doing right now isn't working and is driving a lot of people to quit. (I'll miss you BRJ )
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 56
10-25-2011, 11:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hurleybird View Post
Multiple gravity wells are extremely powerful so this DOFF should definitely be limited to one, and at very rare the chances should still be <40% -- even 33% would be pushing it. Two gravity wells properly placed can lead to the death of an entire team, and three grav wells is just abusive. Two people running GW3 with 3 Doffs that buff GW is going to be an absolute monstrosity.
Hush, I want my Tac/Sci to be able to spawn 3 GW3s :p
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 57
10-25-2011, 12:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fuzun View Post
I think one DOFF that really needs to be looked at is the Projectile Armory Officers. Proc is -2 seconds to Torpedo Launchers. Even with3 white DOFFS, insanely fun with Photon Torpedoes. I can't imagine what it's like with 3 top end Projectile Armory Officers. This proc needs to be looked at very carefully.
Many thanks - this is very useful feedback. There have been some changes to torpedo cooldowns since the duty officer projectile officer power was built, so it probably does need some retuning at this point. I'll check it out.


Quote:
Originally Posted by hurleybird View Post
Mathematically the only thing Cryptic should be concerned about is the highest quality duty officers. It won't take long before every veteran PvPer has an all-purple min-maxed crew.
I concur. That is, in fact, one of the primary balance points I have been operating under for this system.


Quote:
Originally Posted by hurleybird View Post
...but the issue is that you have a long way to go before you understand balance.

As one of the "balance guys" you should implicitly understand balance issues that are this obvious. If you regularly played PvP there wouldn't be a problem. However, if you want to keep your head in the sand you should at least enlist the help of a few of the top PvPers to help you, because what you are doing right now isn't working and is driving a lot of people to quit. (I'll miss you BRJ )
conĚstrucĚtive   [kuhn-struhk-tiv]
adjective
1. constructing or tending to construct; helping to improve; promoting further development or advancement (opposed to destructive): constructive criticism.

courteous (ˈkɜːtɪəs)
adjective
1. polite and considerate in manner
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 58
10-25-2011, 12:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heretic

conĚstrucĚtive   [kuhn-struhk-tiv]
adjective
1. constructing or tending to construct; helping to improve; promoting further development or advancement (opposed to destructive): constructive criticism.

courteous (ˈkɜːtɪəs)
adjective
1. polite and considerate in manner
Ha. Nice. A polite burn.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 59
10-25-2011, 12:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heretic
Many thanks - this is very useful feedback. There have been some changes to torpedo cooldowns since the duty officer projectile officer power was built, so it probably does need some retuning at this point. I'll check it out.




I concur. That is, in fact, one of the primary balance points I have been operating under for this system.




conĚstrucĚtive   [kuhn-struhk-tiv]
adjective
1. constructing or tending to construct; helping to improve; promoting further development or advancement (opposed to destructive): constructive criticism.

courteous (ˈkɜːtɪəs)
adjective
1. polite and considerate in manner
Constructive: asking ppl that know what they're talking what their opinion is about what should be done with broken mechanics within the game

Courteous: doing something with that information (I.e. Not releasing a bunch more broken abilities then claiming that your going to start working to fix them after the damage is already done)
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 60
10-25-2011, 12:15 PM
Gravimetric scientists that affect GW are limited to 1 at a time, the doff roster has never let me slot two of them at once. The tripple GW is only possible with a green or better Doff, and isn't that frequent, it's fun when it occurs but there is no way to reliably proc it.

I have noticed that sometimes the extra proced GW ends up off in the distance for some reason. I haven't figured out why, it may have to do with the original target dying and it not properly creating the proced GW near the existing gravity well or the current target. Then again when it does occur it might be due to if your targeting yourself or a friendly for a buff when it procs and not targeting an enemy... I haven't been able to track down what triggers the oddity as it spawns far enough from ALL the ships involved in the fight whether friend or foe for the proced GW to be useless.
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