Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 21 Again
10-24-2011, 08:51 AM
I will reserve final judgement.....and like you say it might actually be a good change....Im open to that.

However.....fine tuning at this point is a must.....and this needs to be handled with kid gloves because not everyone like me is going to accept where the implications are heading. Some people are going to freak out because its a revamp of the game they are used to...it will take time for this to pass like many things on these forums eventually do.


Still with a sideways view Im skeptical.....and judging from the last year.....can you really blame me?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 22
10-24-2011, 10:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nagorak View Post
This argument makes no sense, just because something is a change doesn't mean it's good. The changes Cryptic is making are generally bad. They could have developed an F2P model that didn't severely penalize current subscribers, but they decided not to go that route. There's good reason for us to be upset.
Define "severely penalize"? When looking over the comparison matrix, I don't see a lot of 'severe penalties' in there:
Gold and F2P matrix

In fact, it looks very similar, with the exception of premium ships being a classification being added. But even then, gold gets a monthly stipend to offset those costs. Or, if the gold member doesn't want a new ship, they can use it for other things. Unlike a free ship token, that must be used for a ship.

I'm sorry, but I don't see the "severely penalize" portion in this. In fact, I see the silver as being an additional option for players, who can purchase the items that interest them, with less of a financial commitment.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Nagorak View Post
It was a very bad sign from the start when the matrix was released and Gold got almost nothing worth subbing for. They clearly don't want paying subs, and they don't want them so badly that a Gold sub barely gives you anything, and you still have to suffer through all the same annoyances as a free Silver player. That was not the way they should have gone.
Same annoyances? More inventory slots in both the character and banks? Unlimited game mail? Vet rewards? Free respec tokens on leveling? Unlimited energy credit storage? Additional BOFF slots when leveling? Foundry creation access? Unlimited access to the chat system and forums? And two things that stood out to me as not really defined yet, but could be interesting in how it compares: Unlimited Customer Service access, and Priority Login. And, on top of that, the gold level also gets a 400 monthly c-store credit stipend over the silver member. As I mentioned before, c-store credits that can be spent on anything, not limited as a ship token is.

I don't see the 'annoyances' in there with the gold members. In fact a lot of it seems to be how it is today, with many 'creature comforts' included that silver members will not get. Its easy to sit on a subscription now, and find a few things different and proclaim it's the end of the world.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Nagorak View Post
Cryptic's whole attitude about the F2P transition has just been completely wrong, and there's really no reason to feel optimistic at this point. Also, in just about every previous test run over the past 1.5 years, Cryptic has done things wrong, not listened to feedback, and just pushed 95% of the problems live. So, it's very likely they're just going to push almost all of the current changes live without making more than minor adjustments.
You do realize you've just described every game out there? Any new release, update, or change _ALWAYS_ has someone proclaiming the direction is "wrong" and how the company is destined for dooooooom unless they revert back. Have some companies made poor directional decisions? Yes. Have some companies made directional decisions that proved successful? Yes.

Of course, you are entitled to your opinion, and at least you've stated some reasons. However, I also think that many of these molehill's are being made into mountains by some.

Personally, I like some of the changes on Tribble. I like the Doff system. I like the open queues for the events. I like rotating hourly events. I like having a more uniform monetary system instead of 10 different currencies. And I like all the additions coming to the C-Store, because then I (as a player) have more options available to me and I can pick and choose which I want. I'd much rather have that, then more limitations.

I don't see the "doom" or "gloom" that is being propagandized by a sub-set of the game. I see a change coming, and I'll see how it plays out. However, no one has a crystal ball to accurately predict how it will develop.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 23
10-24-2011, 10:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by psytce View Post
Stuff taken away from Subscribers:
The 2 T-3 ships being put into the C-Store (Excelsior & Nebula)
Bonus, Consols that can be equiped to other ships as you level up. Yes your galaxy can have a transwarp drive now. Also if you already have them then you get the consol for free.

I was supprised these two ships were in the game to begin with. Same with the va ships, I was supprised there was an ingame method to aquire those as well. Also the VA ships are nice but not game breaking, I just hit the level cap, and decideded not to get the Defiant Retrofit, because I wanted the extra eng BO slot.
I am hopeing that they at least give us a chunk of Dilithium at the level cap though. I hit it and all I got was Quinn saying here are some useless BO points, now get out.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 24
10-24-2011, 10:58 AM
I'm starting to believe none of this is real and I'm gonna wake up in a alley somewhere.....
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 25
10-24-2011, 11:00 AM
I love Cryptic but I dont agree with these many unnecesary changes, but I must admit, we are placing all the blames in the workers and leaving the administration to slide freely. Many of these changes are impossed upon cryptyc by the new Chinesse handlers, or like my aunt Ruperta Lee used to say:

Chin dun do Cryptic mun ti. translation: "Cryptic dudes jump this high!!!" Or close :p
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 26
10-24-2011, 05:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jollyrogers
The big problem I see with this sort of view point (as well as many others expressing similar view points) is that Free To Play does not equal Free To Run. Servers cost $$$. Data Center space costs $$$. Network connectivity costs $$$. IT support costs $$$. Development costs $$$. And, in the case of this game, licensing costs $$$.
You did see the word Subscribers didn't you, that means people who are already paying to play the game. Yes they should cost money for the F2P player, but not the subscriber.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jollyrogers
The fact that things that used to be free under a subscription model are now going to cost $$$ under a free to play model shouldn't be a surprise to anyone. And yet, some seem to think that free to play is a one way street. Generation Entitlement I guess *shrug*. The ownership changed, and the business model changed... so guess what, part of things in the game changed too. Some proclaim this isn't "fair", but it's life. You can adapt and roll with the changes, or chose not to and be miserable.

Really, that's the basis of being all worked up, 2 additional ships, a shuttle, and a free token? If you're running as a free to play account, that's what, maybe $40 of C-Store points in your example? Which would be a little under 3 months of a subscription fee under the old system.

Yes, and society should have chased that trouble making Henry Ford out of town and off the continent. Along with Thomas Edison and Alexander Graham Bell. CHANGE IS BAD! ::
OK putting this in the same league as those inventors is ridiculous. This is a game, a game in which the subscriber is already paying to play. If you are already paying to play why should you now have to pay for something that as a paying customer you were told was going to be free? The "Generation Entitlement" crack is out of line, I just want what I've paid for ... BTW I'm not from the "Generation Entitlement" I'm from the generation of that if you pay for something you should get it... and the subscribers have ALREADY PAID.....
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 27
10-24-2011, 05:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sollaf View Post
Bonus, Consols that can be equiped to other ships as you level up. Yes your galaxy can have a transwarp drive now. Also if you already have them then you get the consol for free.

I was supprised these two ships were in the game to begin with. Same with the va ships, I was supprised there was an ingame method to aquire those as well. Also the VA ships are nice but not game breaking, I just hit the level cap, and decideded not to get the Defiant Retrofit, because I wanted the extra eng BO slot.
I am hopeing that they at least give us a chunk of Dilithium at the level cap though. I hit it and all I got was Quinn saying here are some useless BO points, now get out.

Not all consoles can be used with other ships, the Defiant refit has a cloaking console and it can only be used with the Defiant and the Galaxy X, which also get the same console. they also did not give the extra console slot in the defiant refit...... So even thought they are moving powers to console it is really a little stupid when it can only be used with the 2 different ships it comes with.....


Bottom line, we were told nothing would change for the gold members and they are changing things for the gold members.....


Oh and while I'm at it why can't we get some information or a post from Cryptic on any of these concerns? They are answering other concerns all over the place, but not one word about this .... Ever think that is another reason why everyone is up in arms about these changes? No acknowledgement that anything is wrong....

Someone posted that Gold Members are going to have access to Customer Service and Silver player won't ..... I'm not going to say anything about this because it will get this post edited ....
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 28
10-24-2011, 06:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roach View Post
I'm starting to believe none of this is real and I'm gonna wake up in a alley somewhere.....
That's what happens when you drink a whole bottle of rum!:p
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 29
10-25-2011, 01:26 AM
Hundreds of post about the same thing and all we get is silence .....
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 30
10-25-2011, 04:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by psytce View Post
You did see the word Subscribers didn't you, that means people who are already paying to play the game. Yes they should cost money for the F2P player, but not the subscriber.
Assuming, of course, the subscriber income is enough to cover those costs. After two years, lifetime subscriptions are basically 'free to play' accounts from the accounting point of view. Granted the specifics aren't something Cryptic can release, but I would suspect that the number of lifetime subscriptions that are basically a resource drain, are a significant cost to operations. Thus, now the move to 'free to play' with the inclusion of future ships as 'premium' classification so t hat the life time subscriptions also have to pony up if they choose.

Quote:
Originally Posted by psytce View Post
OK putting this in the same league as those inventors is ridiculous. This is a game, a game in which the subscriber is already paying to play. If you are already paying to play why should you now have to pay for something that as a paying customer you were told was going to be free? The "Generation Entitlement" crack is out of line, I just want what I've paid for ... BTW I'm not from the "Generation Entitlement" I'm from the generation of that if you pay for something you should get it... and the subscribers have ALREADY PAID.....
Not really ridiculous. The point was to highly all the proclamations of DOOOOOOOOM and how the smallest of ant hills are getting transformed into the largest of mountains by people who have worked themselves up into such a lather over a perceived slight against them.

So, you've never encountered a business that NEVER had a price change, or change in services offered as they progressed? Sorry, but welcome to reality and the business world. Things change, especially when businesses are bought by new parent companies. It happens, and it will continue to happen. Heck not even just businesses, take a look at the governments.

Generation Entitlement isn't an age, it's an attitude. Re-read the quote you decided to put into your signature file.

"Lifetime subscribers also become Gold Members automatically and will not be charged a continuing subscription fee. Basically, nothing changes for Lifetime subscribers: They continue to have complete access to the same content, items and episodes the way they always have."

First, re-read it and look for the key word in there. That key word is "Basically". This word does not mean the all-encompassing, end all, final decree of something. Used in the context it was stated, it means 'generally', or in a non-specific fashion. Next, look at the features matrix to see:
Gold vs Silver Matrix
Basically looks the same to me. A few tweaks, with premium ships, and the addition of priority login and the monthly stipend. But certainly well within the statement you've quoted as the whole basis as to why Cryptic is suddenly untrustworthy, and the impending DOOOOOOOM.

Another point that makes your argument look more like Generation Entitlement, you took the quote of your example out of context. The quote you use can be found at the Free To Play FAQ at:
Free To Play FAQ
The original quote can be found about halfway down, under the question about lifetime subscriptions. Except, if one reads the full section, there is one important piece you left off. It can be found at the bottom of the article:
"PLEASE NOTE: Subject to change. We're continually implementing improvements and changes and may alter the free-to-play experience significantly based on user feedback."
So, the company basically indicated that the items and statements in FAQ section were subject to change, up front. Except the whole basis of your doom and gloom is that this portion of the statement was never made or stated up front.

But then again isn't the best part of the game that the developers are always updating it? Heck, the creator of that review claims they love the game more and more each day. So it would seem not everyone shares your view of impending doom and gloom. Just take the creator of that review for example.
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