Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 31
10-25-2011, 05:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jollyrogers
Assuming, of course, the subscriber income is enough to cover those costs. After two years, lifetime subscriptions are basically 'free to play' accounts from the accounting point of view. Granted the specifics aren't something Cryptic can release, but I would suspect that the number of lifetime subscriptions that are basically a resource drain, are a significant cost to operations. Thus, now the move to 'free to play' with the inclusion of future ships as 'premium' classification so t hat the life time subscriptions also have to pony up if they choose.
You mean the people who put up money when they did not know if the game would succeed. Cryptic sold the LTS, they must now honor them. LTS are to be treated as a subscriber, whether or not they pay each month. If Cryptic didn't want to sell the LTS they didn't have to, it doesn't means that they start treating them like freeloaders. They are not, they put up the money at a time when Cryptic needed it. It was a risk, but you can't penalize them because they made a good purchase. The LTS is not a F2P player, they are a subscriber whether you like it or not!

You have this arguement about real world prices going up & changing ..... This is not the real world. Look at what was said "Basically, nothing changes for Lifetime subscribers: They continue to have complete access to the same content, items and episodes the way they always have"
The content is changed, the items have changed. No matter how you decide to look at it doesn't matter, the fact is it changed.

I put in my money and I've supported this game since it started. All LTS have supported this game and All LTS paid there money. I just want what I paid for, that is the same access I have now, no changes to squeeze more cash out of me, I've already paid it.

It really doesn't matter, you will say they aren't change it, I will say they are... We can go back and forth forever....

But more of the customers see it my way than yours, and the customer is always right!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 32
10-25-2011, 05:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by psytce View Post
You mean the people who put up money when they did not know if the game would succeed. Cryptic sold the LTS, they must now honor them. LTS are to be treated as a subscriber, whether or not they pay each month. If Cryptic didn't want to sell the LTS they didn't have to, it doesn't means that they start treating them like freeloaders. They are not, they put up the money at a time when Cryptic needed it. It was a risk, but you can't penalize them because they made a good purchase. The LTS is not a F2P player, they are a subscriber whether you like it or not!
I never said they were penalized. I said they were the equivalent of free to play after two years, from an accounting perspective. They do get classified as a 'subscriber' for the life of the game, or as long as it is in service. But, that doesn't mean they are entitled to anything beyond what is already stated up front.

Reality is, no monthly income from players utilizing services that cost money to maintain and provide = loss. Short term gain, long term loss. Thus, the need for a company to generate means of income to supplement the loss in order to stay in business and function.

Quote:
Originally Posted by psytce View Post
You have this arguement about real world prices going up & changing ..... This is not the real world. Look at what was said "Basically, nothing changes for Lifetime subscribers: They continue to have complete access to the same content, items and episodes the way they always have"
The content is changed, the items have changed. No matter how you decide to look at it doesn't matter, the fact is it changed.

I put in my money and I've supported this game since it started. All LTS have supported this game and All LTS paid there money. I just want what I paid for, that is the same access I have now, no changes to squeeze more cash out of me, I've already paid it.
Actually it is the real world. Your arguments seem to want to try to steer it out of it. Companies don't last long if they're not making a profit, or at least breaking even. Perfect World and Cryptic are real companies, the player base are real customers, and the money exchanged between them is real currency. Thus, back to the statement I made about how companies change fees, rates, services, and levels of service as the business landscape changes. It's reality, and most businesses do it in some form or another.

And, as pointed out in my previous post, it says "Basically", and is used in a context that gives it a meaning of generalization, and not specifics. But yet you keep using that as your 'fact'. And, interestingly, no comment about the portion of the page that quote is taken out of context from, indicating that everything stated there is subject to change. Most interesting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by psytce View Post
It really doesn't matter, you will say they aren't change it, I will say they are... We can go back and forth forever....
I never said they weren't making any changes. I was pointing out the fact that the quote you use over and over again has wording that contradicts the implications you claim it states.

Quote:
Originally Posted by psytce View Post
But more of the customers see it my way than yours,
You have statistical data to back that up? Or is it one of those made up "facts" on the fly to support whatever claim the author is making?

Quote:
Originally Posted by psytce View Post
and the customer is always right!
Hardly. Using that inaccurate motto really weakens the whole argument.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 33
10-25-2011, 05:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blk_DemonKnight
That's what happens when you drink a whole bottle of rum!:p
Vodka or Single malt Scotch.

Rum makes me all happy friendly and I usaully end up screaming "heave-To! and prepare to be boarded" alot while making bad decisions involving bodily harm.
Ok, the bad decisions thing may be more of a constant.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 34
10-25-2011, 06:15 AM
Not to belittle people's feelings about the changes, but I just don't understand this sort of reaction, and I imagine that it will be closed very soon.

But all of this "Cryptic is lying" stuff? Well, let me tell you a story about Star Wars Galaxies... well, not a story, because you all would get bored. Short version: they completely changed the game, and didn't even breath a word to the players until the change was going to happen. They completely killed off my favorite class, made the game into something I didn't enjoy.

You know what I did when I found out I hated the game I played every day since the beginning? I quit playing. No rants, no flames, just quit. Because it's just a game folks, and we all have other things we can do.

So relax, breathe, and if you still hate the changes, then stop playing.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 35
10-25-2011, 06:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jollyrogers
I never said they were penalized. I said they were the equivalent of free to play after two years, from an accounting perspective. They do get classified as a 'subscriber' for the life of the game, or as long as it is in service. But, that doesn't mean they are entitled to anything beyond what is already stated up front.

Reality is, no monthly income from players utilizing services that cost money to maintain and provide = loss. Short term gain, long term loss. Thus, the need for a company to generate means of income to supplement the loss in order to stay in business and function.
You are applying a concept or belief that since it costs x to play for a month, then the lts = freebie after a certain time. You don't get to pick and choose 'as ifs' or 'equivalents'.

LTS paid for every day of this game. Up front. No ifs, ands, or buts.

The liabilities entailed with such a sale is not the fault of the purchaser.

The liabilities are on the seller.

Any time you try to twist this concept around, telling or claiming that I've gotten my 'value out of the game, you are intentionally devaluing my purchase and you are lending moral support to Cryptic during a time in which they are trying to get rid of their liabilities.

Cryptic sold LTS and they have to deal with it. As far as you defining the worth and 'value' of the game for me, thanks but no thanks.

I value my lifetime subscription. I value the $600 I've spent here. Nothing members can say will truly detract from my purchases.

Lastly, a little note to Cryptic:

Hey Buddies! Your LTS page says 'More on the way', can you take it down since you haven't given LTS anything new since..............when was the last time we got an exclusive.......they gave the lame caprtains table to subs.....I don't even remember!

Can't you just take down the 'more on the way'? Since LTS gets nothing new anyway, you could remove the blurb and I'll be happy! Thanks!!!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 36 agree'd
10-25-2011, 06:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by brenatevi View Post
Not to belittle people's feelings about the changes, but I just don't understand this sort of reaction, and I imagine that it will be closed very soon.

But all of this "Cryptic is lying" stuff? Well, let me tell you a story about Star Wars Galaxies... well, not a story, because you all would get bored. Short version: they completely changed the game, and didn't even breath a word to the players until the change was going to happen. They completely killed off my favorite class, made the game into something I didn't enjoy.

You know what I did when I found out I hated the game I played every day since the beginning? I quit playing. No rants, no flames, just quit. Because it's just a game folks, and we all have other things we can do.

So relax, breathe, and if you still hate the changes, then stop playing.
This is true to form for sure....while I can't stand a few things cryptic has come up with, at least they are trying in the respect of customer feedback (even though it is through a forum mostly).

Generally I do enjoy the game very much and think they have done loads to make it more so. It's a great game, and they did a great job with it thus far.

I just want them as well as others to understand that somethings just can't head in a direction that is detrimental to the games playability. I fear that this is the case sadly....will I continue to play? Imma a lifer...so sure....but in all fairness I cannot say the same for others.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 37
10-25-2011, 06:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roach View Post
Vodka or Single malt Scotch.

Rum makes me all happy friendly and I usaully end up screaming "heave-To! and prepare to be boarded" alot while making bad decisions involving bodily harm.
Ok, the bad decisions thing may be more of a constant.
Bah.......real klingons drink anti-freeze.....
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 38
10-25-2011, 07:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sollaf View Post
Bonus, Consols that can be equiped to other ships as you level up. Yes your galaxy can have a transwarp drive now. Also if you already have them then you get the consol for free.
If I make a new character after F2P hits can I still buy the ship for EC? Yes/No. Truth/Lie.
"It depends on what the meaning of the word 'is' is." No it doesn't.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jollyrogers
I never said they were penalized. I said they were the equivalent of free to play after two years, from an accounting perspective.
You have no idea how many people have bought LTS during the last year. It's pretty obvious they did not get their money's worth.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 39
10-25-2011, 07:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Superluminous
You are applying a concept or belief that since it costs x to play for a month, then the lts = freebie after a certain time. You don't get to pick and choose 'as ifs' or 'equivalents'.

LTS paid for every day of this game. Up front. No ifs, ands, or buts.

The liabilities entailed with such a sale is not the fault of the purchaser.

The liabilities are on the seller.

Any time you try to twist this concept around, telling or claiming that I've gotten my 'value out of the game, you are intentionally devaluing my purchase and you are lending moral support to Cryptic during a time in which they are trying to get rid of their liabilities.

Cryptic sold LTS and they have to deal with it. As far as you defining the worth and 'value' of the game for me, thanks but no thanks.

I value my lifetime subscription. I value the $600 I've spent here. Nothing members can say will truly detract from my purchases.

Lastly, a little note to Cryptic:

Hey Buddies! Your LTS page says 'More on the way', can you take it down since you haven't given LTS anything new since..............when was the last time we got an exclusive.......they gave the lame caprtains table to subs.....I don't even remember!

Can't you just take down the 'more on the way'? Since LTS gets nothing new anyway, you could remove the blurb and I'll be happy! Thanks!!!
Thus its why I said "for accounting purposes"... which doesn't mean customer perception of value. Two very different things, and not sure why you tried to equate them.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 40
10-25-2011, 08:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jollyrogers
Thus its why I said "for accounting purposes"... which doesn't mean customer perception of value. Two very different things, and not sure why you tried to equate them.
You opened that ugly door. When you do, all sorts of nasty things can find their way out.

You may have said 'for accounting purposes', the implication however, doesn't. By opening that door, you are in some small way llending credence to Cryptic's hope that we indeed, have gotten our money's worth. Then they can march off to board meetings and reviews and honestly state, "The player base is mixed on X"

When you hear chilling things from Devs such as 'The silent majority', the last thing you need is to open the door.

p.s. I note that you didn't respond in any way to my comment to the devs, which counters your argument that LTS doesn't deserve anything more. The website claims that LTS has 'More on the way' and it has since launch.
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