Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 21
10-24-2011, 03:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heezdedjim
This is patently false, at least based on historical time / reward ratio for these missions.

With the old STFs, we could get a nice Mk X-ish set of space gear, with really nice mods, in EXACTLY three runs. With the old STFs being broken down into the new segments, what used to be three runs works out to somewhere around 9-10 runs of the new segments; 12 at the most, if you want to account for difficulty as well as time. And the old STFs, when they were not bugged out, were also totally doable by PUGs. I got all my pieces of the old set from first-time runs with random PUGs. The only sucks part was just waiting around for a group to get together . . . and of course the random bugged out stuff that sometimes made them un-playable.

Now we have a system that takes around 90 runs to get a Mk X set of space gear (or ground gear) that has some nice mods. This stuff is not significantly more powerful than the old Borg Set, and might even be a little underwhelming depending on what you think of the mods. That's an order of magnitude increase in straight up, mindless grind. It's not fun, it's not reasonable, and there is no good reason for it, other than someone just decided it would be cool if it took 10x as long to get this stuff as it used to.

And this is not even getting started on the Mk XI and Mk XII stuff, which is going to require a grind an order of magnitude harder and longer that THAT to get. And instead of fixes to make the process less absurd and bring it back into the realm of reasonability, we get comments like, "Yeah, the stuff is all too easy to get now. But don't worry, that will be fixed."

This pretty well sums up my feelings on the subject.

Mind numbing grind is not fun, nor difficult. It is merely mind numbing. Doing the same thing over and over and over and over and over again is not fun.

And that is just for one character. Multiply this by how many characters you have, because if these are the sets to have, then any character you want to stay competitive needs them.

The sets aren't that awesome, looking at the stats, and if they were they should be nerfed anyway. So why does it take so many grinding runs of the stfs to acquire them?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 22
10-24-2011, 03:12 PM
Everything that was differant about STO and made it unique in MMO's is fading away.
Being like single player missions means STO was always going to be uniqueish!
But i want these items but im not going to grind a mission 40times to get one item, some folks do have a life away from a Computer, and STO is fast becoming WOW in space.

Everything seems to be lopsided, look at leveling, you can max out in less than a week if you wanted to, then they go and add a boost zone and boost....like SERIOUSLY?!?!?! now you can max in half that time!

Through all of this they have neglected something to keep it going, its called content, i can understand boosts and grinding if there was content but there isnt.

FTP crowd will enter and max real real quick, as theres no content we will see flaming like we havent seen before.

Seriously add some content before you die.... in just a few weeks you have made and changed alot, yet this past year we seen very little, surprising what you can do when you want to, makes me wonder whats been going on.

Add grind etc if you want, just balance it with leveling, content and variety. At the moment there isnt that.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 23
10-24-2011, 03:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heezdedjim
This is patently false, at least based on historical time / reward ratio for these missions.

With the old STFs, we could get a nice Mk X-ish set of space gear, with really nice mods, in EXACTLY three runs. With the old STFs being broken down into the new segments, what used to be three runs works out to somewhere around 9-10 runs of the new segments; 12 at the most, if you want to account for difficulty as well as time. And the old STFs, when they were not bugged out, were also totally doable by PUGs. I got all my pieces of the old set from first-time runs with random PUGs. The only sucks part was just waiting around for a group to get together . . . and of course the random bugged out stuff that sometimes made them un-playable.

Now we have a system that takes around 90 runs to get a Mk X set of space gear (or ground gear) that has some nice mods. This stuff is not significantly more powerful than the old Borg Set, and might even be a little underwhelming depending on what you think of the mods. That's an order of magnitude increase in straight up, mindless grind. It's not fun, it's not reasonable, and there is no good reason for it, other than someone just decided it would be cool if it took 10x as long to get this stuff as it used to.

And this is not even getting started on the Mk XI and Mk XII stuff, which is going to require a grind an order of magnitude harder and longer that THAT to get. And instead of fixes to make the process less absurd and bring it back into the realm of reason-ability, we get comments like, "Yeah, the stuff is all too easy to get now. But don't worry, that will be fixed."
^ What he said.

Lots of people have been saying the main jist about STO for some time now. I still don't understand how some people seem to think making something take longer is the same as added content.

There are a few companies out there that have content updates on a regular basis, CCP comes to mind immediately, oh and the player isn't charged for anything. As a matter of fact, with just a few hours of play time a month, you can do everything in EVE and play for free.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 24
10-24-2011, 03:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wraith_Shadow
Personally at VA i don't really like having to replay these missions over 40 times for a single MK XI item.....
Is there something else to do in game?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 25
10-24-2011, 03:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wraith_Shadow
Is anyone else mad at this prospect of just another Currency to Grind?
been doing some 40 or so runs of em on tribble and all i can say so far is im quite sure that if this system with such a heavy grind hits holodeck i'll probably long have left the game before i finish getting a set for my second or third toon - which is sad cause i really like having at least one ground toon of each class on each side.

This system is alt-unfriendly, it makes equipment a factor in pvp and its huge waste of time doing repetetive boring stuff over and over again. The old system of having to do each stf only once to be done with one toon was much better and much more casual and alt friendly.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 26
10-24-2011, 03:42 PM
I'm just wondering why it is you think you need this gear? What are you planning on using it for, if not to run the Borg STFs over and over again? I thought that was the point; it was a set of gear specifically tailored to improve your performance playing the missions which you play to earn it.

Play Borg STFs if you like them, and they'll reward you with gear which makes playing Borg STFs easier. If you don't like playing them, you don't really need the gear, right?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 27
10-24-2011, 04:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by modernevil
Play Borg STFs if you like them, and they'll reward you with gear which makes playing Borg STFs easier. If you don't like playing them, you don't really need the gear, right?
It's not that people don't like playing the STFs. They like playing them just fine. They just don't like being forced to play them 90 times in order to get a baseline gear set out of them. The instances are fun, but they're not THAT fun. And the stuff you get is good, but it's not THAT good.

As far as ultimate motives; the first is that if you want purple Mk XII stuff at some point, the Elite STFs are the only way to get that. And the Normal STFs are the only way to get the entry level Mk X anti-borg gear and sets that you will need to survive Elite. I expect most people who want the Mk XII kit will want it for PvP, but some who want it will just want it because it's the closest thing to Legendary gear that's available in the game.

The second motive is that the baseline Mk X stuff is also good for Red Alerts, and for fighting borg in general, which appear in most of the story line content after RA1. And as purple gear goes, it's not the worst you can get; at any rate It's at least marginally better than the Mk X/XI blue dilithium gear for general use.

The sets are probably the main thing that people want, and the weapons for Red Alerts. And when you get down to it, the sets are not "essential" for anyone; but then, nothing in this game is really essential. The one thing that the ground set really has going for it is auto-remodulation (which in itself is a "bonus" that's only a bonus because it defeats an awkward, annoying, and pointless mechanic that was apparently added to the game for the sole purpose of making this bonus feel like a bonus).
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 28
10-24-2011, 04:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heezdedjim
This is patently false, at least based on historical time / reward ratio for these missions.

With the old STFs, we could get a nice Mk X-ish set of space gear, with really nice mods, in EXACTLY three runs. With the old STFs being broken down into the new segments, what used to be three runs works out to somewhere around 9-10 runs of the new segments; 12 at the most, if you want to account for difficulty as well as time. And the old STFs, when they were not bugged out, were also totally doable by PUGs. I got all my pieces of the old set from first-time runs with random PUGs. The only sucks part was just waiting around for a group to get together . . . and of course the random bugged out stuff that sometimes made them un-playable.
Well, I'm thinking more in terms of the random purple drop from the bosses rather than a Mission Reward. Of course it will take less time to get the old borg set from the old STFs. You get it just by finishing it once. But I've been operating under the assumption that the new gear would be a random drop since these are not "missions" anymore. Sure, it would be nice if it just gave you a choice of the gear with completing one run like the standard mission rewards. No argument from me there. But with the revamp, I think that would be too easy. There should be a balance somewhere. Perhaps making the rare salvage counting as several common salvage would address this.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 29
10-24-2011, 04:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heezdedjim
I expect most people who want the Mk XII kit will want it for PvP, but some who want it will just want it because it's the closest thing to Legendary gear that's available in the game.
Very wrong. The mods on this gear are very poor. The only possible use for it is for the [borg] mod, which is debatable if it is better than [acc], will need some testing on that. Purple and MK XII doesn't always mean its good. It's the mods that make it the best. A blue MK X [acc]x2 weapon beats any of this borg gear for pvp or any non-borg pve hands down. Maybe Cryptic will play their game sometime and learn what their own modifiers actually do.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 30
10-24-2011, 04:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikiy
been doing some 40 or so runs of em on tribble and all i can say so far is im quite sure that if this system with such a heavy grind hits holodeck i'll probably long have left the game before i finish getting a set for my second or third toon - which is sad cause i really like having at least one ground toon of each class on each side.

This system is alt-unfriendly, it makes equipment a factor in pvp and its huge waste of time doing repetetive boring stuff over and over again. The old system of having to do each stf only once to be done with one toon was much better and much more casual and alt friendly.
This is what concerns me. I have 17 characters. I don't have to have *all* my alts outfitted with special gear, but I do want a few of them.. 3 missions each for the borg sets was already enough repetition.. but now, having to repeat and repeat them just for 1 character.. Not really happy with that change.
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