Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 1 Cure Space no longer fun
10-27-2011, 05:15 PM
Just ran thru Cure Space and what was a fun repeatable grind mission yesterday is no longer fun. I have a couple of questions that if someone can answer I'd appreciate.

1.) Borg Shield Nutruelizer (sp?) - Why do we even have a counter to this (HE) if the cubes can fire it more often than we can fire off standard torpedoes? Get hit with it twice in rapid succession, clear it, and hey...get hit twice more. Death by cube. repeat same pointless counter to the borg shield drain three more times before one of the three cubes die. Fun.

2.) Why are STFs seemingly designed to be PUG unfriendly? Just because casuals like me don't want to bother with fleets/teamspeak doesn't mean we don't appreciate fun endgame. Cure Space was fun and completely PUG accessable yesterday.

I was arguing with heezdedjim that the loot drops were fine. That was before I played it today. That STF gear just became a lot more scarce because players like me who only play in PUGs won't have the patience to keep getting continually mauled in PUGs just to get a Mk X gear set.

Every patch so far on Tribble just seems to make me like the game less. Other than DOFFs, this has just been a terrible testing experience for me.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 2
10-27-2011, 05:31 PM
Nothing should have changed on normal with the exception of the Optional Objective.

BTW.. the Optional Objective Loot bag never dropped Set Pieces... If that's what you think has changed. it only dropped random BOE stuff, Rare Salvage, and the occasional EDC (common salvage).
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 3
10-27-2011, 05:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cryptic_Gozer
Nothing should have changed on normal with the exception of the Optional Objective.

BTW.. the Optional Objective Loot bag never dropped Set Pieces... If that's what you think has changed. it only dropped random BOE stuff, Rare Salvage, and the occasional EDC (common salvage).
No, the loot is fine. I knew that is how it worked.

Issue #1 has been a bother of mine for a while. Just got to the point today where I really got tired of it. Why have a counter that doesn't actually end up countering anything if every NPC ship (Maybe not the Borg BoP's, but everything else) just spams shield nuetrilizer to the point that the counter is useless?

And if I am not mstaken, you strengthened up the probes. At least the bottom set of three seem much more difficult to kill then they were. The upper set seem the same as they always have. The addition of the optional secondary failure (Kang hull drops below 75% = fail) just means no PUG will ever complete the optional. Why is this considered a good thing from a design perspective?

And issue #2 is valid no matter if it was yesterday or today. It seems to be the opinion of some that I have seen posting that the STFs are not supposed to be fun for PUGs. Seems born out to me when I play them. The additional failure state on the optional objective makes the STF optional all but impossible for a PUG. Why is this considered a good thing? Casual players would like to achieve an optional goal just as much as fleeted-up teamspeaking players.

Why should something be more difficult by design for the casual player than for someone with the time to find a cool fleet and get set up on voice chat and all of that?

It may just be that STFs aren't worth the frustration for me. Either way, thanks for responding. I do like the format of them now much more than I did before if that counts for anything.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 4
10-27-2011, 06:00 PM
I'm not sure what you guys did to the Cure space, but I'm with the OP on this.. It was a grind, but it was a fun grind.. ya know, drops happened, lot of loot drops, some times some extra salavage just turned to zip didly.. Just did 2 run and out of the two runs there were a screaing total of 4 loot drops off of kills. Thats it. It just became unrewarding. Over all difficulty may have changed to some small degree but the loot has dissapeared, along with the incentive to want to do it (I see the Kelrun set graphis on my ship but I noticed STF uniforms are still not in the Tailor my other KDF toon has the entire KDF Honor Guard MK XI ... wheres my doggone uniform? I earned it! I want my uniform!!!!

People are not going to do these if there is no rewards. And not the borg gear tokens either. Unless I get blazingly lucky I still need to come up with 105 more "Encrypted Data Chip" to get the rest of the Kelrun Mk XI ground set on my KDF SCI captain.. and all of a sudden that starting to look like 105 STF runs.. If drop rate has ben edjusted down then the chances of extra data chips has also drop significantly.

Or, in other words, ya'll overdid it AGAIN! Have any of ya ever considered making a SMALL change?

16 Nanite repair probes, 3 cubes, 6 guard raptors, 12-16 BOP, 6-10 Raptors and usually at least 4 Neg'var that need to be taken out and of course that assimilated Carrier at the end and 2 loot drops off of kills during the mission split between 5 players...

I'll keep plugging at this but my impression is that ya'll shot the goose!

Thanks, really thanks alot....
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 5
10-27-2011, 06:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Khemaraa_Iron_Hand_KBF View Post
I'm not sure what you guys did to the Cure space, but I'm with the OP on this.. It was a grind, but it was a fun grind.. ya know, drops happened, lot of loot drops, some times some extra salavage just turned to zip didly.. Just did 2 run and out of the two runs there were a screaing total of 4 loot drops off of kills. Thats it. It just became unrewarding. Over all difficulty may have changed to some small degree but the loot has dissapeared, along with the incentive to want to do it (I see the Kelrun set graphis on my ship but I noticed STF uniforms are still not in the Tailor my other KDF toon has the entire KDF Honor Guard MK XI ... wheres my doggone uniform? I earned it! I want my uniform!!!!

People are not going to do these if there is no rewards. And not the borg gear tokens either. Unless I get blazingly lucky I still need to come up with 105 more "Encrypted Data Chip" to get the rest of the Kelrun Mk XI ground set on my KDF SCI captain.. and all of a sudden that starting to look like 105 STF runs.. If drop rate has ben edjusted down then the chances of extra data chips has also drop significantly.

Or, in other words, ya'll overdid it AGAIN! Have any of ya ever considered making a SMALL change?

16 Nanite repair probes, 3 cubes, 6 guard raptors, 12-16 BOP, 6-10 Raptors and usually at least 4 Neg'var that need to be taken out and of course that assimilated Carrier at the end and 2 loot drops off of kills during the mission split between 5 players...

I'll keep plugging at this but my impression is that ya'll shot the goose!

Thanks, really thanks alot....
(18 nanite probes, isn't it?)

I didn't notice much difference in loot drops on my test runs, to be honest. I only had the patience to run two runs before I decided it wan't fun anymore so maybe I was just loot lucky.

But now that I think about it, making it impossible for PUGs to achieve the optional will make the whole process a lot more grindie than it was. Its just one less chance I have of snagging an extra common or rare, making the odds of having to do a full 30 runs for one piece of gear more likely.

Oh, and halving the dilithium payout kinda sucked, too. If there isn't going to be a change to dilithium being tied to crafting, I was hoping Cryptic wasn't going to be stingy with dilithium rewards. Now we have less rewards, more costs, and a silly 8k refining cap.

Enthusiasm waning the more I think about it.

Edit: to be a little more constructive, I will toss out a suggestion. Remove the optional failure state on normal. That keeps the normal difficulty PUG-friendly, and makes the elite challenge that much more elite by comparison. It also doesn't diminish the accomplishment of the elite players, since those of us on normal difficulty teaming in PUGs are never going to earn the Mk XII gear as it stands, anyway.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 6
10-27-2011, 06:27 PM
Just did Cure space before the server was taken down again and right now it is perfect for normal with a pug, as I defended the Kang while my comrades took out the borg, and 1 or 2 kept an eye out to make sure I didn't get overwhelmed.

However the bug of someone not getting put in to auto team happened, so 1 guy who was just sitting doing nothing for the first 5mins got away with our bonus loot bag please fix the auto teaming in STFs as this is very very annoying.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 7
10-27-2011, 06:33 PM
Oh Goz, I think the difficulty got set from where it was to in between that and elite. I agree with my predacessors that cure, hell even infected was fun with the most recent set of changes before this. but it has changed. transformers I shot and went down smoothly yesterday are suddenly very beefy today. I'm not complaining about the difficulty but I should say I wasn't prepared for it. I took a few hits and went splat today where yesterday I could have shrugged it off with a bit of healing.

That all said. I agree with the OP that the borg can fire that damned neutralizer way too often. I gave up clearing it long ago because when I healed the set of 7 that was on me, another 9 got fired at me while the buff was running and I still got neutralized. Now it seems if im not running a full healing build I just have to resolve myself to having no shields ever and that I'm going to die a lot.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 8
10-27-2011, 06:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonwind
That all said. I agree with the OP that the borg can fire that damned neutralizer way too often. I gave up clearing it long ago because when I healed the set of 7 that was on me, another 9 got fired at me while the buff was running and I still got neutralized. Now it seems if im not running a full healing build I just have to resolve myself to having no shields ever and that I'm going to die a lot.
Yeah, as an Eng in a Defiant, I expect to go boom quite a bit, but its a little redonkulous now. I had 7 or 8 neutrilizers on me, hit HE, cleared those, got 4 or 5 more, couldn't clear them. I have HE, Eng team II, rotate shields, emergency to shields, tac team, miracle worker, brace for inpact all going off when cooldowns allow just to try to last long enough to use HE again to reclear and try to get some shields up again.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 9
10-27-2011, 06:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by UFP_Dodgers View Post
Just did Cure space before the server was taken down again and right now it is perfect for normal with a pug, as I defended the Kang while my comrades took out the borg, and 1 or 2 kept an eye out to make sure I didn't get overwhelmed.

However the bug of someone not getting put in to auto team happened, so 1 guy who was just sitting doing nothing for the first 5mins got away with our bonus loot bag please fix the auto teaming in STFs as this is very very annoying.
It might be ok if you get an exceptional group in your PUG. Otherwise, kiss that optional loot bag bye-bye, auto-team camper or no.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 10
10-27-2011, 06:43 PM
I have to agree as well. I have been grinding a bit, which I rarely do, to get the Kellerun ground set.

This evening after the patch the drops of salvage, err, encrypted things are much less during the run of the stf.

Then, someone didnt get put into auto team and we who did all the work got nothing for saving the Kang.

And finally, yesterday on MANY times I ran it the final reward was often 3 items, one salvage and 2 of something else. Tonight, one salvage and one item.

So something has changed and as mentioned it has made doing this grind a hassle. This is a test server, give us a bit of a break on it to test out the new equipment...

And make the ground (new) sets up before the weekend so those of us grinding for the sets can use them during our fleet nights for the weekend.

:-)
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