Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 11
10-27-2011, 08:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The.Grand.Nagus View Post
If we're being honest, there really is no debate. The community is overwhelmingly opposed to the crafting changes, and Cryptic hasnt said anything since the crafting dev blog was posted. A debate requires 2 opposing sides both presenting arguments, but Cryptic isnt responding.
its a fait accompli for craptic. they are basically telling us, "this is how its going to be. we might adjust the prices down a little bit so we can say, hey, look, we gave you something back! if you dont like the changes, heres our collective middle finger- you know what to do with it"

thats how craptic has come off during this entire thing. i find it utterly hilarious, and quite pathetic honestly, that since blog post #15, released very shortly after the now infamous #14, there has been no dev communication. if that doesnt tell the player base what craptic thinks of us, i dont know what else would. they've given us the middle finger, shoved it where the sun dont shine, and told us to deal with it. and stormy, before you come on here and remove this post and ban me from the forums again, theres nothing vulgar and obscene about the truth- if the devs, craptic, unperfect world, or anyone else cant handle the truth and has to ban it from being seen then that says 2 things- 1) you have thin skin and cant take criticisim
and 2) you have a god complex and think that just because we PLAY the game (which is obvious none of you do outside of work) we have no clue how to develop and run a game, and that you are in fact better at your job than you actually are. i guarantee you that 95% of the player base could do a better job than what has been presented in front of us the past 3-4 months.

also, dont lie and say "none of the dev team has said that"... your right, they havent. but the old saying goes action speaks louder than words. in craptics case, the lack of action speaks much louder than words. and those actions are a big ..... you to the player base.

on the brighter side of things, at least heritic and gozer can do their jobs and do them well. love the doff system and changes to STFs boys well done, keep up the good work. show us that there are in fact at least 2 people in that office that know what the hell they are doing
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 12 Highly biased article.
10-27-2011, 08:22 PM
Quote:
One of the most thought-provoking changes that came with the latest Tribble patch revolved around the crafting system...
Excellent spin work there Brandon.

Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 13
10-27-2011, 08:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PatricianVetinari
Excellent spin work there Brandon.

Although I dont agree on the "debate" issue I mentioned earlier, I dont think you can call it spin when he goes to to say how it has ruined crafting for his fleet.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 14
10-27-2011, 08:38 PM
It's certainly thought-provoking insofar as you try to come up with an alternative solution that will please the players, and still accomplish what the devs want to accomplish in terms of making crafting more "difficult."

ETA: Let's not overlook the fact that Stormshade is directly linking to the article, which contains the above criticisms. They're hardly trying to suppress feedback on this issue, and that's a good thing. Granted, some actual dialogue would be even better, but it's a good thing.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 15
10-27-2011, 08:55 PM
"Debate"?

We haven't heard a peep from management about crafting and its been over a week since they dropped dilithium on us. Do they think we are going to stop being upset? They are FAR from the end of the battle rage they stirred up by back door-ing dilithium (cash sales) into crafting.

There obviously is little debate. If I could harness the rage that is going ON and OFF the boards, I could power a small space station.

This reminds me of last year when I went nutso on Stahl over the borking of anomalies. The response then was long in coming, and even longer by an order of magnitude in order to fix it. This ruination was tested on tribble and we begged them not to put it on holodeck. Of course they did, and crafting was ruined for months.

Lets say that again: They introduced a broken system on tribble; we told them it was broke; they acknowledged us; they implemented a broken anomaly drop system on Holodeck anyway.

I am truly astounded that tens of thousands of people like me have spend the better part of $1000 playing this game, only to get the kind of silence we are seing from management. Someone should be ashamed over the lack of communication from product management on this.

The ONLY reason I put up with this is the IP. The utter lack of content at end game is ridiculous. the normal end game is where the game really should start, like all the other major MMOs. Where are the massive upgrades.

Lastly, and NEVER leastly: How about taking down the "More is on the way!" on the LTS selling page. I am offended by the fact that it is up there, and doubly offended that it is still listed as a selling point when LTS hasn't gotten ANYTHING in so long that its a joke. Keeping this baloney up there is a deceptive business practice. Everybody knows that "LTS doesn't deserve anything", so take it down please. It isn't right to use it as a selling point, only to never fulfill that selling point.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 16
10-27-2011, 09:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingdox View Post
I have a feeling the next changes will be even more "controversial" and they are sitting on them so folks don't kill their subs for November. That way Cryptic gets one last month of sub money out of folks.
Doubtful, in fact very doubtful in my mind. Mr De'Angelo stated their goal was to slow (more time) the supply of purple gear from crafting. They have this new hammer, er, time gated currency which would could be added to crafting quite easily. They have a nail, er problem, and the used their shiny new hammer.

( My opinion on the change: their were either very lazy, were ignorant of how the player played the game or (worse), both. Any of which puts Cryptic in a bad light. )

I think this amount of negativity touch them by surprise. And the didn't plan for a total rejection of the idea. They apparently have to put into place something to take the place of the time gating that Dilithium would have provided. But it has to be tradable, limited in quantity w/o making it unique, and something should that it will not place a big load on the game server to process it. It's probably something that can't be done immediately in their engine. So that would me system coder tiem for coding and debugging). And the the systems designers get their hands on it to add it to crafting and yet more debugging, before it winds up in out hands (i.e. on Tribble).
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 17
10-27-2011, 09:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The.Grand.Nagus View Post
If we're being honest, there really is no debate. The community is overwhelmingly opposed to the crafting changes, and Cryptic hasnt said anything since the crafting dev blog was posted. A debate requires 2 opposing sides both presenting arguments, but Cryptic isnt responding.
I agree. A "debate" requires at least two sides who at least somewhat oppose each other and have a back-and-forth DISCUSSION on the topic at hand. There are two camps (the devs and the players) right now and only one is talking (the players).

My father used to say that it was like talking to a brick wall when one of us didn't listen to him. It's kinda like that right now, except that instead of talking, we're YELLING at the wall.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 18
10-27-2011, 10:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The.Grand.Nagus View Post
Although I dont agree on the "debate" issue I mentioned earlier, I dont think you can call it spin when he goes to to say how it has ruined crafting for his fleet.
Teach a man to fish. So what if a small title is lost on fleets? Fleet crafters are so moot on the issue, feedback should be on cost and accessibility to all not some prestige thing among Fleets. Whats next, Cryptic ruined my Fleet Masseuse position?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack_Armstrong View Post
I agree. A "debate" requires at least two sides who at least somewhat oppose each other and have a back-and-forth DISCUSSION on the topic at hand. There are two camps (the devs and the players) right now and only one is talking (the players).

My father used to say that it was like talking to a brick wall when one of us didn't listen to him. It's kinda like that right now, except that instead of talking, we're YELLING at the wall.
Your dad would also tell you ONE child yelling he should get a pony, does not mean all kids want ponies.
Lt. Commander
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Posts: 120
# 19
10-27-2011, 10:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by maina View Post
Teach a man to fish. So what if a small title is lost on fleets? Fleet crafters are so moot on the issue, feedback should be on cost and accessibility to all not some prestige thing among Fleets. Whats next, Cryptic ruined my Fleet Masseuse position?




Your dad would also tell you ONE child yelling he should get a pony, does not mean all kids want ponies.
Find one post (that's not yours, or actually stating apathy) arguing that the changes to Crafting on Tribble were done completely correctly and satisfactorily, and we can call it a debate.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 20
10-28-2011, 12:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandon
One of the most thought-provoking changes that came with the latest Tribble patch revolved around the crafting system...
Understatement of the millennium.

Quote:
Originally Posted by maina View Post
Teach a man to fish. So what if a small title is lost on fleets? Fleet crafters are so moot on the issue, feedback should be on cost and accessibility to all not some prestige thing among Fleets. Whats next, Cryptic ruined my Fleet Masseuse position?
You're missing the whole point. I have absolutely no title whatsoever for being the 'fleet crafter'. There is no title for this, nor is there an accolade for it. I don't get paid to do it, with either in-game gold or outside remuneration. If cryptic came out with a fleet crafter title, I doubt I'd ever use it, because I could care less about what sits on top of my toon's head as I run around. I craft for the fleet because I want to help others. Apparently you don't feel compelled to help friends or fleet mates equip their ships, toons, and boffs, or you would actually understand why the rest of us are so upset about this change.

Why do I craft? Because I have alts that I want to equip. My son plays the game periodically, and I want to help him equip his characters. I want to help out friends and fleet mates who are new to the game (and thus have not come close to maxing out their crafting skills) by equipping them with decent gear. Sure, I can teach them to craft. That's the easy part. Grinding up to the 1650 points is harder--and I did it before they even had the schematics out, so I don't want to hear about how easy it was, because it definitely was harder then to get the ECs to buy the needed mats before schematics came in the game. I'm saving fleet mates from what is admittedly a boring activity for most of them. If I make good gear for them, they're more likely to be successful in game, especially in PvP and STFs. This translates into more fun for all of us when we get through STFs successfully, and encourages people to stay in the game.

While this concept has been lost on you, it has not been lost on the rest of us who regularly craft to help out our friends or to advance our own toons. No REASONABLE person can justify an entire month's time of daily dilithium grinding just to get a VA level ship. I can't log into the game every day--I have a real life. No REASONABLE person can justify an entire month's time of daily dilithium grinding just to equip that ship that we just spent the previous month grinding for. That's beyond insane.

I routinely make 5 or 10 items at a time for fleetmates. Once this change hits holodeck, I'll be lucky to be able to make 1 per day. I'm not going to pay real money for the c-points for dilithium. I'm not going to ask my friends to pay real money for a c-point card for me to craft items for them. It's a fundamentally flawed system that I will not support.
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