Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 1 "Adding Grind"
10-31-2011, 12:18 AM
With the Quantum Cafe's recent interview with Stormshade mentioning ways to add grind, I thought I list some ideas of extending the leveling so its longer to get to endgame.


1) Ranks:
  • Add Lieutenant Junior Grade (LT JG) and have it as the new Tier 2.
  • Make Rear Admiral Lower Half and Rear Admiral Upper Half have 10 Grades instead of the current 5 Grades.


Right there you added 2 Levels worth of grinding. All you need is new missions for those new ranks. In addition, it makes room for the remaining Canonical Star Trek Starships that have yet to be added. With Klingons, it restores the ability to have the B'rel with the new Klingon leveling system.


2) Exploration Clusters and Patrols:

Exploration Clusters and grinding in DSEs might be a good way to add a little grinding and knocks out some boring accolade grinding at the same time. Of course DSEs still need a massive revamp so they are more entertaining than out right boring.

This could possibily include having them play Foundry Missions?


3) Eliminate the XP Boosts:

If you want to slow people down, just lower the Speed Limit.





Anyone have any other ideas to slow the rise up to endgame with the new F2P crowd? At the same time making STO fun?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 2
10-31-2011, 12:30 AM
My Crafting Revamp idea adds a grind to Crafting. (Without being such an obvious and onerous railroad to the C-Store too!)

Basically, it adds steps and timers to crafting everything, while necessitating a new class of Crafting Materials that will have to be acquired (not Dilithium), with optional C-Store and Dilithium shortcuts to make the bean-counters happy.

It also allows for people to use extra Crafting Components to get a chance to determine the modifiers on the items they craft (with a failure chance).

EDIT:Another idea just hit me, what if we scrap the XP system as it stands now?

Before you rage, hear me out.

As it stands now, if a person is immune to grind-raging, they could conceivably grind the Azura mission over and over and over and over again to the cap. This is possible because while the XP rewards diminish on replay, they never entirely disappear, mostly because the Devs can't quite count on us doing the missions in order, not even on Tribble, because people could grind Azura, Exploration, or PvP.

So here's what we do, every story mission, exploration, and non-PvP mission, instead of granting a chunk of XP, grants a percentage of rank. if it would take 20 story missions to go from Lt.Com.1 to Com.1, instead, each of those story missions grants 5% progress towards your next rank-up. If there's 10 storyline missions between Com.1 & Capt.1, then each gives you 10%. But, for each replay, it's cut in half, from 10% to 5% to 2.5% to 1.25% to .62% to Zip. Exploration missions start off at 2.5%, PvP matches don't grant a percentage at all (to mitigate the possible exploit), Dailies always do a set 1% of any given rank (even if you got the Daily as a Lt.Com. initially, once Com. it still grants 1% of Com.).

This way, if all you do is Storyline, you rank up quickly, but you lose all the fun detours side-quests like Crafting, Fleet Actions, etc.. Grinders who would abuse the system are limited by both diminishing returns, and the fact that the only missions which consistently grant the same advancement are time-gated Dailies.

It encourages a slow progression by making the fast-track miss out on content, and rewards patient players with content, the most desired thing in MMOs!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 3
10-31-2011, 02:00 AM
I haven't heard this interview.. so let me get this straight, inferring from, what you're saying.. they are admitting to intentionally adding grind, and looking for more ways to do so?

Wow..
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 4
10-31-2011, 02:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by -Songbird-
I haven't heard this interview.. so let me get this straight, inferring from, what you're saying.. they are admitting to intentionally adding grind, and looking for more ways to do so?

Wow..
Consider the following information:
1) STO has never had a long leveling time to reach cap. It's been around 60 hours, if you're not gaming explores/defenses/etc.

2) The Duty Officer System has taken my fresh character on Tribble to RAUH 3 in under 2 days /played. In conjunction with leveling while those assignments were going on, the race to cap will be significantly shortened.
This means either:
A) Cryptic needs to start developing more endgame content: territory control, new exploration, starbases, colonization, etc.

or

B) Cryptic needs to adjust the leveling progression to make it more in line with other MMOs out there (a sub-50 hour cap is actually fairly small considering the games out there).
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 5
10-31-2011, 02:53 AM
The main attraction for me is that there is minimal grind in STO.

Extending the time it takes to get to end-game is still a good idea though, but the gaps need to be filled with more playable diverse and interesting content. Grinding repetitive content does not add anything to the game (go play Lineage 2 for some grind - shudder).

Putting end game further out of reach for players is just a lazy excuse to avoid developing end-game itself. The same is being done with Klingon Gameplay at the moment. Cryptic is eliminating the need to develop Klingon faction content by letting players just them skip a bunch of levels.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 6
10-31-2011, 02:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darren_Kitlor
2) The Duty Officer System has taken my fresh character on Tribble to RAUH 3 in under 2 days /played.
XP from the DOFF assignments is buffed just like the XP from missions in Tribble. Just a reminder.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 7
10-31-2011, 03:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KitsuneRommel
XP from the DOFF assignments is buffed just like the XP from missions in Tribble. Just a reminder.
And even then, the rewards are still subject to change.

If they want to lengthen the leveling process- they have to give us something to do as well.

They could just cut all skill point rewards (as they are on Holodeck) by half. But that would leave us doing countless of Exploration missions (or PvP missions?). They still need to fill that gap with something interesting to do.

And once you're at endgame? What is there to do? Exploration and PvP again? And STF reruns?

Hmm. I think the reason we level so fast is not because they give us too much skill points. It is because if they didn't give us so many skill points, the game wouldn't be much fun either, and people would drop earlier.

They seriously need to work on their Foundry Daily if they want the content gap to be filled. For starters, it shouldn'T be a daily mission. An Hourly (1 mission required each hour) is more like it.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 8
10-31-2011, 04:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MustrumRidcully View Post
If they want to lengthen the leveling process- they have to give us something to do as well.
This

My main problem with altering of the leveling process is the lack of content, if they want to make it longer to reach level cap give us more substantial content so it feels less like grind and more like play.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 9
10-31-2011, 04:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dane_Strife
This

My main problem with altering of the leveling process is the lack of content, if they want to make it longer to reach level cap give us more substantial content so it feels less like grind and more like play.
Grind is content. You must work to earn your gear. You don't play games to have fun, you play to have a second job.

I wish I was kidding but some people really feel that way.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 10
10-31-2011, 04:42 AM
I am getting the impression.

Just getting stuff for doing nothing is not satisfactory, that much is true. But there is a difference between "challenge" and "work". Grind errs on the side of work. I don't feel like I have something accomplished just because I did it 500 times in a row. I am a programmer. If I forsee needing to sometimes 500 times in a row, I will spend my time writing a script or software that will do it for me. Even if writing that script takes the same time as doing the thnig 500 times in a row, I will be more satisfied, because I actually achieved something and solved a potentially complex problem.

This doesn't mean I want to build a bot that does the grind for me I just want the grind to contain something fun and challenging. For example, for me, that would mostly be PvP. If you give me rewards for PvPing - especially for PvPing succesfully, aka beating the challenge of clever, adaptable opponents, I'll be fine and have no issue taking a year to get all my items.

But of course, the reason a Free to Play game puts grind into the game is so that people buy stuff that makes the grind shorter and easier. Cryptic does take the direct route, apparantly- allow us to trade C-Points for Dilithium with other players. They don't really want us to grind that long. They just want us to pay for faster leveling and gear acquisition. That's all.
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