Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 191
11-03-2011, 10:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rehpic
We will be adjusting the various limits based on our data analysis and player feedback after the exchange goes live on Tribble.
I've held my tongue up until now about your damage analysis up until now. Because your data analysis to present could yield data that has some semblance to reality, and I grudging will yield that the C-Store data may have some semblance to reality as well.

But now with the Dilthium Exchange any data that you gather will be so badly skewed that it will be useless. IT will be useless as to what player will go on the live game because there are no consequences to players actions. The Tribble C-Points (T-Points) are phony money. It has little, or no, value to players. Any value placed on the T-Points will have no bearing as how player will value in reality. You can feasibly use this data as a baseline.

And price fixing the exchange rate without even having a baseline? Insanity.

Note: So their is no misundetsanding. 'You' used in post meant to be a collective you as in 'you == Cryptic'.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 192
11-03-2011, 10:14 AM
Is anyone else getting a "Dilithium Exchange is Disabled" message when they try to open it?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 193
11-03-2011, 10:24 AM
Yeh been getting the "Dilithium Exchange is disabled" page for the last 3 hours roughly,around when holodeck went down for the patch.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 194
11-03-2011, 10:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sfmedical
seems to me that the only reason people would want a price cap removed would be to sell their dilithium at a price that would effectively be termed "way overpriced" and as such their dilithium/c-points would prob not sell at all, remember that the people buying the dilithium/c-points will look for the lowest prices, if everyone sold their c-points/dilithium for too much, no one would buy it and there would be no point in having the exchange at all, the cap is a good idea as it keeps the prices reasonable and will promote more people to use the exchange.
This is the entire ideal of a market is. Laws of Supply and Demand. Selling something at a price that customers are willing to pay. If I price something at 1,000,000 to 1, and someone take me up on that offer that was the customer's choice to pay that price. That 1,000,000 to one might seem overpriced to you, but it wasn't overpriced to the customer who paid. As long as there aren't things like a monopoly, the market is self regulating. Someone can come in and undercut my prices. That someone else gets the transaction, with me losing out.

And there can't be a monopoly, nor even an oligarchy, that I can see being creating. Anyone and everyone has the same access to the markets. And there are no big inflationary factors. One can't be generating currency at huge rates like Energy Credits. Cryptic has the control that it needs to regulate the economy: the Dilithium Refining rate.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 195
11-03-2011, 10:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kelder View Post
Yeh been getting the "Dilithium Exchange is disabled" page for the last 3 hours roughly,around when holodeck went down for the patch.
Yes, and now it is impossible te retrieve all the C-store points because of that
I cannot cancel my offer. i would not be surprised if the C-store points are completely lost now.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 196
11-03-2011, 10:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcellus View Post
With the F2P changes, the prices have been increased, but the 400 CP stipend neatly covers that (with a few exceptions), so I don't have to include either factor in my calculations.

In the Dilithium economy, the maximum amount of Refined Dilithium that can be earned per day is 8000. The equivalent of 1 Emblem is 480 Dilithium, as far as daily mission rewards go. So, if the price of a 1200 CP item is now 500 Emblem, then the equivalent of that would be 500x480=240k Dilithium. Divided by the refinement limit, 8000, this is exactly 30 days' worth of Dilithium grinding. So, if we want to get 1200 CP in 30 days, the exchange rate would have to be 240k / 1200 = 200 rD/CP (as others have noted).

Thus, in the new system, the equivalent options for that 1200 CP value would be:
1. Buy 1200 CP for 15$
2. Subscribe for a month for 15$ and grind NO LESS THAN 8000 Dilithium on average, AND buy CP for NO MORE THAN a 200 rD/CP rate.

---

If the typical exchange rate goes considerably over 200 rD/CP, then NO MATTER HOW MUCH TIME someone spends grinding, it becomes mathematically impossible for them to get that value in a month. In that case, I'd get more value out of my 15$ if I skipped a month of subscription and bought Cryptic Points with it instead. That's right: the Dilithium Exchange could create a situation where NOT PLAYING FOR 1 MONTH brings you CLOSER TO A NEW SHIP THAN PLAYING FOR 1 MONTH.
CORRECTION:

In the above analysis, I've considered the stipend as a compensation for the C-Store price increases, treating it as a bonus instead of including it in the cost of the subscription fee. While this interpretation does have some merit with comparing buying power between pre-F2P and post-F2P, it doesn't accurately represent the values gained in the new system. So, if we take the post-F2P situation as-is, without regards to the price changes, then:

The 15$ monthly subscription fee includes 5$ worth of C-Points. So, the Dilithium gained over the course of a month should be compared to 10$ worth of C-Points (800 CP), not 15$ (1200 CP). Which means that the exchange rate where you ACTUALLY break even is 240k / 800 = 300 rD/CP.

So, including the value of the stipend the subscription fee, the correct comparison is:
1. Buy 1200 CP for 15$
2. Subscribe for a month for 15$, getting 400 CP and grind NO LESS THAN 800 Dilithium on average, AND buy CP for NO MORE THAN a 300 rD/CP rate.

CONCLUSION:

While buying C-Points for a ship at over 200 rD/CP would still be a bad deal for me compared to the pre-F2P situation, it's only at 300 rD/CP where I'd be better off buying C-Points with my money instead of a subscription.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 197
11-03-2011, 11:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain_Revo
im thought the devs already said the promotional points where ok to be traded? the stoked guys said it while they were sitting next to one of the devs.

confirmation would be nice but i think they will.
In Jessie Heinig's interview on STOked Show 100, Part 1. The interview was about Dilithium and the new economy.Jessie Heinig was explaining about the Dilithium Exchange and how it worked. it was Chris that brought up the use of the Gold Account STO C-Point Stipends, and Jessie specifically talked about player selling their stipends in the Dilithium exchange.

If you want to see it for yourself, this is the start of the section of the interview where they talk about the stipend points being sold on the Dilithium Exchange.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 198
11-03-2011, 11:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Commodore Shrvk
Hence why I used, "a little more". Revo should have never had me pointed me back to see that interview . There is so much that has gone a complete 180 degrees from that interview that I think we really need some clarification. I have a collection of quotes running as I watch this that are no longer true of the dilithium economy system.

If I were to go by what was said in this interview I would feel comfortable, because things have been sooo monitized and dilithium has permeated almost all aspects of gameplay and gated so much of the content, I wonder what the heck happened.

For example, one of the statements that I was comfortable with was these two:
  • “In general, you will choose the way that you want to earn dilithium. Do you like doing star clusters? Go and do a bunch of star clusters and earn your dilithium for the day. Do you like PvP? Do a bunch of PvP matches and earn your dilithium that way. Or get if from STFs, or fleet actions, or dailies.”
  • "So being able to gear yourself up will be something you can do by playing the way that you want to play the game…"
You are leaving out other parts of the interview. In other parts he talked about doing your dallies to get your Dilithium, which is precisely what we have on Tribble. He also made mention of being potentially rewarded for doing more Exploration missions.


Quote:
But they did not hold true and hence why I am upset with this "Dilithium Craze". If I want to do exploration I can only do it once a day, that is it. If I want to hit that 8k cap I now have to play the game I don't want to play it.

I have many many more examples of things that were said that I honestly would just like to know, why the apparent 180 and why the push to limit, gate, and monitize. Especially because I am a paying subscriber. I don't for once ever see me using the dilithium-c-point trade, one currency is currently too scarce for "how I want to play the game" and the second, well I value my money too much to trade it away.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 199
11-03-2011, 11:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain_Revo
its hard to understand because that not what the dev have said and thats not what happens when you use the system in game. as a buyer if you offer a figure of 500 dilithium and its going for 100 you only pay 100 and get the rest back. the seller has gotten exactly what they asked for and no more and as the buyer i have paid less than i originally wanted. its benefited the buyer. ive already done this in game and the devs have confirmed this in the thread.
Actually both can happen, depending on who triggers the transaction. If the CP buyer triggers it they get the best price i.e. they only pay enough dilithium to match the amount of CP they ordered, even if that is less than what they were prepared to. If the CP seller triggers it then they will get the dilithium buyers are prepared to pay even if it is more than what they would settle for.

I did some examples earlier in the thread here
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 200
11-03-2011, 01:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by capraibex
Yes, and now it is impossible te retrieve all the C-store points because of that
I cannot cancel my offer. i would not be surprised if the C-store points are completely lost now.
Uh you do realize that these are test points, right? So it doesn't really mean anything if they are lost through a bug, but it does help to report such bugs...
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