Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 1 Sci ships
11-17-2011, 08:38 AM
So i was thinking of the "OPness" of sci ships last night, and I realized that in all the talks of how out of hand sci is right now, I've never heard anyone mention sci ships inherit targeting abilities. Seems kind of crazy that a sci ships that has socmuch potential to shut down a target also needs FOUR extra ensign tactical abilities to disable not to mention target analysis on top of that. As much as I like these abilities on my Luna, I think taking these abilities off sci ships would be a good step in the right direction.
I started thinking about it this way, if you fly a intrepid you've got potentially 8 extra abilities (4 targeting abilities, sensor analysis, ablative, shockwave torp, and photonics decoy). If you look at it like extra BO's, could you imagine the outcry if a ship came out with 8 extra ensign slots more than a normal ship?

"OPness?"
Lt. Commander
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# 2
11-17-2011, 08:56 AM
Hahaha.

This thread cracks me up again.

And you know what? Stop trying. (No offense)
But you know what else? There will be nothing done about these 'possible' imbalances in the game.
My personal experience tells me that every single Science Bridge officer ability is all but equal versus the equal ranked Engi/Tact officers.

I must agree now that SS has been nerfed enough. But that was just for the SS...

You know something else, most people who run Science ships alot don't feel the same as others who dont run Science/Ships alot. I know from my personal experience that Science in this game, as a whole, is just so much more dominating then anything else.

Personally I couldn't care less anymore about the current balance in this game. :p
Lt. Commander
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# 3
11-17-2011, 08:57 AM
how dare you talk of the intrepid in that manner. if it had any less gadgets i wouldn't fly it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHBwryfycvk

STATION!
Lt. Commander
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Posts: 120
# 4
11-17-2011, 09:21 AM
The issue is that sci/sci sucks at PvE (well, it doesn't really suck in that you still can never lose, it just takes a lot longer to kill stuff), so Cryptic in their infinite wisdom decided to buff science ships to epic proportions (or they were too dumb to realize that changes like 1 sec global torp cool down would greatly benefit science ships over everything else). Of course, the obvious and correct answer from a game design perspective would be to make NPC enemies fail less so that playing the debuff class makes some amount of sense in PvE, but we all know that's not the way Cryptic works
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# 5
11-17-2011, 09:47 AM
Quote:
The issue is that sci/sci sucks at PvE (well, it doesn't really suck in that you still can never lose, it just takes a lot longer to kill stuff), so Cryptic in their infinite wisdom decided to buff science ships to epic proportions (or they were too dumb to realize that changes like 1 sec global torp cool down would greatly benefit science ships over everything else). Of course, the obvious and correct answer from a game design perspective would be to make NPC enemies fail less so that playing the debuff class makes some amount of sense in PvE, but we all know that's not the way Cryptic works
I think both Sensor Analysis and the Target Subsystem Abilities are not really relevant to PvP. Just like Subnucleonic Beam or Charged Particle Burst is not that relevant in PvE.
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# 6
11-17-2011, 09:49 AM
Sensor analysis isn't too relevant (although any boost to damage helps), except in dueling. Native target subsystem abilities are obviously very relevant.

In any case, sci doesn't need either of these goodies to be effective. Perhaps instead of taking away and causing grief for PvErs and RPers, Cryptic could give escorts and cruisers more goodies of their own?
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# 7
11-17-2011, 09:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MustrumRidcully View Post
I think both Sensor Analysis and the Target Subsystem Abilities are not really relevant to PvP. Just like Subnucleonic Beam or Charged Particle Burst is not that relevant in PvE.
I'd disagree on that one.

Sensor Analysis brings my broadsides up to Cruiser-levels of damage, while I have all of the fun Sci tools to reduce my target's effectiveness that a Cruiser doesn't have.

Plus it boosts the Target Subsystems up a significant bit; the integrated BTS 1 acts as a BTS 2 and if you choose to go with a BTS 2 for your LtC Tac, it can act as a ghetto BTS 3 (likewise, a Beam Overload 2 can be bumped to a ghetto Beam Overload 3).
Lt. Commander
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Posts: 120
# 8
11-17-2011, 11:16 AM
I understand what your saying Marc, and I agree with you that the devs probably won't do anything to change it, but I will continue to hope for and try to encourage cryptic to balance out what could be an amazing game. I only have ten days left to play, but I still wish the best for STO and the pvp players that are left and hope that sooner or later, the pvp community will get some love. Hey, who knows, maybe heretic is reading this post right now ;-)

Having said that, my main IS a sci/sci character and science ships are what I cut my teeth on as I leveled my first toon. I Love science and the crowd control aspect of it, which is why I know that it can be so op and should be checked a bit. I do believe Hurley nailed it as far as why sci got so out of hand. It SUCKS leveling up a toon with science ships. Theyre role in pve is laughable, even WITH all their little gadgets. Again, cryptic took the easy route of just buffing something with no consequence to balance instead of taking the tougher route of fixing the pve content to make sci abilities more effective.

As to the effectiveness of target abilities, I really believe theyre the best work around to all the healing right now. A 20%chance every fifteen seconds to shut down a subsystem for the first minute of an engagement seems quite powerful to me. That's not counting the power drain to the systems that the abilities do even if they don't proc. As far as sensor analysis, in a game of "who has the higher resistance" anything that helps lower their resistance IMO is a pretty big benefit as well.
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# 9
11-17-2011, 01:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hurleybird View Post
Sensor analysis isn't too relevant (although any boost to damage helps), except in dueling. Native target subsystem abilities are obviously very relevant.

In any case, sci doesn't need either of these goodies to be effective. Perhaps instead of taking away and causing grief for PvErs and RPers, Cryptic could give escorts and cruisers more goodies of their own?
But they have their own goodies - Escorts can use DHCs and have very high turn rates. Cruisers have the most hull.

I think adding more goodies in a system that already has too many or at least too powerful buffs doesn't sound like a good idea to me. That doesn't mean that taking away SA or Subsytem Targeting is a better idea. I think both is barking up the wrong tree.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 10
11-17-2011, 02:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MustrumRidcully View Post
But they have their own goodies - Escorts can use DHCs and have very high turn rates. Cruisers have the most hull.

I think adding more goodies in a system that already has too many or at least too powerful buffs doesn't sound like a good idea to me. That doesn't mean that taking away SA or Subsytem Targeting is a better idea. I think both is barking up the wrong tree.
I realize now that my op got off track. Originally, the thought I was trying to convey was that it is weird for sci ships to have 4 extra ensign tac abilities along with sensor analysis. Not console abilities or abilities that give up console slots. Just 4 extra BO abilities. Just seems odd to me that it seems normal to have this on one class of ship. I like analogies, so imagine if they released a p2w excelsior refit that had 4 ensign level sci abilities attached to it with no penalty to BO slots or console slots. It would be crazy right? Why is it normal for sci to have it then?
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