Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 151
11-05-2011, 07:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acidrain View Post
While so many are pleased and that this needed to be done, it would seem that the direction is off on another tangent instead of addressing many other areas that could and would improve the game. Iam not dismissing what is being changed, we still have seen a lack of expanding the universe to balance out that in which has been added as of date.
Seems to me that they are concentrating on a system that keeps their imaginary huge *new* playerbase playing for years or more before they can see nothing new is being put in as far as content wise. So in short they are telling the current playerbase we might as well find a new game to play.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 152
11-05-2011, 10:29 PM
At its current state, I DO not like the skill tree. The old one, I believe is better. Perhaps for my play-style, but I still will like to speak of my disagreement.

I play mostly Science and I understood well enough the skill tree, both through reading guides, testing and questioning how I play the game. My methods of 'speccing' a good science build was to forego damage and focus on my science abilities, power management, ship command skills and ground skills, with a dash of attack vectors, manoeuvres and battle strategy thrown in for accuracy and etc. I never have to put too many points on weapon skills, only the Tier 1 (Energy and Projectiles) and Tier 2 (Energy). I fare Extremely well with, I must say, PVP and Elite PVE Combat both ground and space. And, I have bridge officers to suit the situation I am in. Confuser, Holder, Healer, Etc.

Now this Skill Tree is not doing it for me. But I am still playing around with it to understand it better which may change my mind. I cannot give a full reason really until I know what the ground skill tree is like. I exclusively ride a SV with a Science Captain. Same with the others. Although this is is good for changing ships, it does not sit well with characters that choose a role in the game. I see no balance. For example If I spec into a Confuser, version I and II skills will not really do well with a Cruiser or an Escort at the VA level. So still changing ships is still not effective as you guys think.

A captain who has flown a ship for years should be familiar with its systems and capabilities even to the point where he/she is able to improve upon those abilities. Bring back the Starship skills please. It is better, I believe, to know a particular type of ship well than having to learn about ships that one would never use. This shows that you people (Cryptic) want everyone to buy the C-Store Ships. Although at the moment they are account wide, we do not know, in fact I do not know if it will stay that way when F2P hits.

The resist put on science abilities that hold or placate should not be there i think. If so, put a skill for shield resistance just like the one for hulls, That may somehow balance things out but am not sure yet. It makes support characters useless especially on the science side. Maybe this is one-sided as it is what I enjoy doing, controlling the battle and not going PEW PEW all the way. Yes it takes a bit longer when solo but respect it as a personal choice.

As I said, this is still the testing stage but i do not really like what is on board now.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 153
11-05-2011, 11:29 PM
Yea Picard is right drawing the line here... i got like 13 days left on this sub... might try out STO again after its been in f2p for a couple years. I'm a big star trek fan but uh yea theres a line and it has been crossed.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 154
11-06-2011, 12:40 AM
Wow

First, the good. I do like the simplification in theory, I do like that speccing for a specific ship is gone. But there are so many fundamental design flaws in this new system. Some of these existed in the old system but were mitigated by the diminishing returns.

1) Skill Tax, or 'must have' skills:
These skills are toxic in a game. They are either strong enough that you would be a moron not to take them, or so weak that they are wasted space. An example is warp core potential, it adds a bonus to all four of your power levels, one of the most important stats in the game as it gets multiplied (ill get into that later) with all gear and other modifiers. Weapon Training is another one, you have at least 6 weapons on your ship either the bonus is good enough everyone takes it, or so pathetic no one takes it. These skills become a 'skill tax', you have to take them so what is truly the point of them even existing.

2) Top Heavy Skill Tree
Because of how few low level skills there are players tend to put points into ones they don't even care about, once again removing the entire point of having a choice. Also, too many high level skills lead to a lack of options as you pick what you 'need' not what you 'want'.

3) Lack of uniform synergy
Some skills impove other skills taken, others do not skewing their values. As an example, if you take Starship Weapons training when you take Starship Energy Weapon Specialization it has a stronger effect than if you didn't. And if you take Starship Weapon Performance as well it gets even better! In which case you either take all 3 or your not getting the most of your points. That would not be a bad thing IF most/all skills had that form of synergy, but they do not. Typically, x*x >= x+x

4) Random Tier Placements
Gavity Well, one of the heighest tier science abilities is effected by 2 tier 3 skills, Tekken's Rift by a tier 1 and tier 3. Scramble Sensors is modified by a tier 5 skill. Why are sensors T4 which resist a T5 skill, when Insulators are T2 and resist a T1 skill. Some make sense, most really, others seem extremely random.

5) Forced Diversity
Because of linked recharge timers on many boff skills, and the way kinetic and energy damage are treated vs shields and hull, you are forced to diversify and dilute your abilities to accomplish your role. Want to deal good damage, you need beams or cannons AND torpedoes or mines, that's over half of your top tier skills.

While the intent is good, it is being built on a terrible foundation. The old system had the majority of these flaws as well. But, because of the way diminishing returns were applied and the large number of skill points compared to the number of 'required skills' it still worked. Nearly everything in this game punishes you for being too focused. Too many beams and you actually loose DPS, Torps don't do crap against shields, having three bridge officers with the same ability was pretty useless and so on. That hid many flaws in the system. This brings them into the light. Granted, I've seen worse, but I do think it will remove alot of the interest I had in character building.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 155
11-06-2011, 01:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sprint01
Guys, this is JUST the space build. That's all. The ground skills will be revamped as well, which will pair up appropriately with this current space build. Focus on the space skills for now. You're not going to have enough skills for our current builds at the moment, not until they roll out the rest of the changes. It's only half done.
Please forgive the speculation but I feel that it focuses any potential readers to why it is important to debate the finer points of space and ground min/max for PvP and how well we can generalize and still be effective in STFs.

We still do not know how space and ground separation will be massaged into this system. What I sense is we will have to respec again when the other "half" of the system is introduced. I also feel that we will not be getting any more experience points as it will raise the level cap prematurely. It seems to me that we will have the same number of exp to buy skill points where only some of that exp will be reserved for space and the rest for ground. I do not expect a 50/50 split either. There are not enough ground skills to support a 50/50 space/ground split, at least in this build there is not. Unless they reduce the cost in exp for skill points the space half of our builds will be reduced even more by forced ground spec than they are right now.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 156
11-06-2011, 01:47 AM
I was starting to like this game and then well go to tribble, read the forums and dev blogs, and then plan a funeral for your characters.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 157
11-06-2011, 02:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeuxidemus
I was starting to like this game and then well go to tribble, read the forums and dev blogs, and then plan a funeral for your characters.
I can appreciate that I have my fears too and they are many but...

I would not go that far yet. The last thing the Devs want is toon funerals. We have two sides here, Devs and players, both sides should be looking for a happy medium where they can both be comfortable. Polarizing statements like this make it difficult to really establish where that happy medium lies.

In a nutshell: It is not yet time to go shooting ourselves in the foot by writing off this game set in an IP we all enjoy if not outright love.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 158
11-06-2011, 02:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by piwright42 View Post
I can appreciate that I have my fears too and they are many but...

I would not go that far yet. The last thing the Devs want is toon funerals. We have two sides here, Devs and players, both sides should be looking for a happy medium where they can both be comfortable. Polarizing statements like this make it difficult to really establish where that happy medium lies.

In a nutshell: It is not yet time to go shooting ourselves in the foot by writing off this game set in an IP we all enjoy if not outright love.
They have made it clear they do not care about current players because they have a new player base they claim coming to make us obsolete. Oh this game pretty much got written off when this F2P system after showing their 6+ months of work is a new fleet action, some shiny stf stuff that will keep us busy for maybe a day, and the doff system. Other than that about a weeks worth of content before it burns everyone out. I have no feet now I'm done.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 159
11-06-2011, 02:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeuxidemus
I was starting to like this game and then well go to tribble, read the forums and dev blogs, and then plan a funeral for your characters.
dude your worst than me on negitive post. your forgetting something. tribbles is a beta server... they making changes soon. if changes arnt made than the lack of people online will force a correction.

i think they have noticed a massive number drop already.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 160
11-06-2011, 02:50 AM
Maybe, a future "solution" can be have "3 different points". One of them, for space, another for ground and a third branch to "free distribution".

Or meybe, how we have "Star Fleet Academy", we can take abilities from "branch carreer" (tactical, officer and eng), Command branch ( all of us we are captains) and finally several "free "interest" skill train".

(both of them, go against me, my main char is Scientific and she is the worse starfleet scientific)


Thanks to everybody, and sorry for my bad english
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