Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 21
11-05-2011, 06:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thamapp
That would have been okay aswell! A remake of the science and engeneering trees, at least in the way thier doing is not a good idea.
At least nothing that's required. I get the goal to make the skills more transparent, but the new names are just as cryptic as before, to be honest. Graviton Generators doesn't really tell me what it all affects and what it doesn't either. Subspace Compiler or what it's called is even more of a mystery than Astrometrics. I regularly compile code, but never tried it with subspace...
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 22
11-05-2011, 07:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alastor_Forthright View Post
except the new system is flawed, unfinished, and overall nerfs players by not allowing them to spec as effectively as they could.
Your contradicting yourself...something can't be flawed and nerfed if it is still unfinished. I'd wait until the entire system is rolled out.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 23
11-05-2011, 07:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mancom
Here is how the skill tree revamp could have been:
http://denkbassin.de/extern/sto/Skills1.png
Remove most ship skill boxes, unify them to generic T2/T3/T4/T5 ship skills with the same (100%/50%/50%/100%) rules that apply currently.
Problem of not being able to fly multiple ships: solved

Remove most energy weapon skill boxes, unify them to regular (phaser+disruptor) and advanced (all others) energy weapons at T3/T4. Do the same with torpedoes, there regular = photon, quantum and advanced = the rest.
Problem of skillpoint penalties for exotic weapons is significantly reduced while maintaining a bias towards the "canon" weapons to emphasize that these weapons are the regular load-out of most Fed/KDF ships.

Incrase the skill point cap by an amount X and force players to spend at least X points in ground skills.
Problem of ground/space only builds: solved, without making current specialised builds impossible.
well the sci tree needs a revamp... too many skills do next to nothing given the actual use of the powers in question, or are spread out in such a way that we get the same 2-3 iteration of cookie cutter builds, because they are the only viable options.

Also you kept subsystems repair, last i know this did absolutely zero, so why keep it in there?
Given that an overall dmg nerf is part of the new STO design, for better or worse, i think the new skill tree shows some signs of improvement over the old one.

Off to do some testing, more thoughts later...
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 24
11-05-2011, 07:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by havam
well the sci tree needs a revamp... too many skills do next to nothing given the actual use of the powers in question, or are spread out in such a way that we get the same 2-3 iteration of cookie cutter builds, because they are the only viable options.
This is close to why I'm pretty happy with the new skill tree. I've always said in the past that the science skills need to do more than just improve specific science abilities... engineering skills improved things like hull, weapons/shield/ect power levels, and so on, while also improving specific engineering abilities. So in that respect, I'm quite happy Cryptic finally listened and made science skill worth speccing into outside of just using certain science abilities

*applaud Cryptic on that point

If they do end up scrapping this new system per some suggestions, I do hope they copy over the new science tree, as it is so much better than before
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 25 Thumbs up
11-05-2011, 07:49 AM
This thread gets a thumbs up from me

-Love Hammel <3
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 26
11-05-2011, 07:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by havam
well the sci tree needs a revamp... too many skills do next to nothing given the actual use of the powers in question, or are spread out in such a way that we get the same 2-3 iteration of cookie cutter builds, because they are the only viable options.
But this is not a problem with the tree itself, more the skills in it being wierd. Redesign them instead.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 27
11-05-2011, 08:20 AM
One of the things I look at on the new skill system, is that perhaps 2 Skills at "Tier 1" should be moved. They are Batteries and Starship Flow Capacitors.

Those should be swapped for Starship Shield Capacity and Starship Structural Integrety.

Why? Because it should be optional, for anyone in space to have to spend 9 Points in Batteries and Starship Flow Capacitors. While boosting your Hull and Shield Capacity should be something ANY captian would want to do right away. And originally you could with Starship Command at Tier 1.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 28
11-05-2011, 08:29 AM
The proposal in the original post makes much more sense than the current build on tribble. There are somethings that I like about it but not much so I'm glad it's still in testing. In general, I'm curious about seeing more built in trade offs like damage or healing, speed or hull, etc.

I have a slightly more complicated proposal that I'll try to put up later for ***** and giggles.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 29
11-05-2011, 08:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thamapp
But this is not a problem with the tree itself, more the skills in it being wierd. Redesign them instead.
well it kinda is because of the min of 3 branches for every skill design, just didn't see any improvement to that in the OPs picture.

So my first impressions after some testing:
- Ow that damage nerf hurts my little pew pew ego. Haven't had a chance to see if 5v5 but phew.
- my HE 1 healing stats are through the roof, nerf dat ****
- VM no longer dependes on Aux intended?
- GW and TR have no more consoles
- pretty much all the sci consoles are screwed up, "No more dmg through Sci abilities"..makes sense outside of cryptic HQ:...no
- the beam and cannon consoles vs. the equivalent energy type consoles are out of line, something like +18% Energy beam dmg, vs. + 26% disruptor damage, no clue if this is intended or not to punish rainbows
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 30
11-05-2011, 11:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mancom
Here is how the skill tree revamp could have been:
http://denkbassin.de/extern/sto/Skills1.png
Remove most ship skill boxes, unify them to generic T2/T3/T4/T5 ship skills with the same (100%/50%/50%/100%) rules that apply currently.
Problem of not being able to fly multiple ships: solved

Remove most energy weapon skill boxes, unify them to regular (phaser+disruptor) and advanced (all others) energy weapons at T3/T4. Do the same with torpedoes, there regular = photon, quantum and advanced = the rest.
Problem of skillpoint penalties for exotic weapons is significantly reduced while maintaining a bias towards the "canon" weapons to emphasize that these weapons are the regular load-out of most Fed/KDF ships.

Incrase the skill point cap by an amount X and force players to spend at least X points in ground skills.
Problem of ground/space only builds: solved, without making current specialised builds impossible.
What I was thinking, but worded 100 times better than I could^^^

"This is a complete and utter nerf, heals will become even harder to deal with, just about every configuration will be less effective, and tacs will be useless, its just retarded!

The old skill tree was fine, all you had to do was just move all weapon types to the same tier, (say tier 3)
And just spec into 1 skill on each tier for your ships hull and shields (to avoid the changing ship problem).

People didn't spec into ground, not because its 2 hard, but because we didn't like it. If you wanted to force us into specing for lolground, you should have give us extra skill points.

And seriously skills aren't confusing, how can people not know what Astometrics is, click on the skill and it tells you. Stop dumbing this game down so the learning curve is easy for f2pers.

I don't normally complain but wtf are you thinking??"
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