Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 11
11-04-2011, 09:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Destinii
It is? Space ships now fly like fighters and you need a joystick/throttle to play them like flight sims? Ground combat is now true FPS like Modern Combat/Battlefield/whatever?

Or, do you mean the skill system has been changed like other games change their Talent systems occasionally (which, really, is what this skill system is). Hardly as game breaking as one would think.

Plus, *everybody* is in the same boat (ship?). So, its not as if you, personally, were the only one who needs to figure out the skill system.

And, I'm glad that we know the system is *terrible* after only half a day or so of testing.
Edit because I read your post wrong i guess. I cant figure out if your being serious or have no clue.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 12
11-05-2011, 12:01 AM
After looking at the NGE AKA Skill revamp, I've found the following:

VA = RA 5 again. You can only get, if you put 8 points in most skills (Which appears to be the absolute max you really need to get the most Bonus for your Points) You can get 2 Tier 5 Skills at 8 and 1 Skill at 6. Here's an Example on my Engineer on Fed side in his Defiant:

Starship Weapons training 9, Starship Energy Weapon 8, Starship Maneuevers 8, Starship Attack Pattern 8, Starship Energy Weapon Specialization 8
Starship Weapon Targeting 8

Starship Batteries 9, Structural Intergerity 9, Starship Electro-Plasma Systems 8, Starship Engine Performance 8
Starship Hull Repair 9, Starship Impulse Thrusters 8, Starship Hull Plating 8, Starship Aux Performance 8
Starship Warpcore efficiency 8, Starship Warpcore Potential (Does this even work?) 8, Starship Shield performance 8, Starship Weapon Performance 6

Starship Flow Capacitors 9, Starship Power Insulators 8
Starship Shield emitters 9, Starship Shield Systems 8

With this build I'm losing the Resist to Holds, Disables and Knockbacks, Resistance to Subsystem Defenses (Have they gotten this to work since it didn't work on Live?), Sensors Bonuses, and Stealth Bonuses to my Cloak (Does that even work yet?).

Now What does that mean I have to do? I HAVE To specialize in Energy weapons. I have to basically use nothing but Cannons and Beams. Is it eaiser to do it? Sure, but I could have done it eaiser already.

But then while I'm looking at my Engi and how it doesn't seem so bad.. I then remember my favorite character on the Klingon side... My Tac in a Bird of Prey..

The Bird of Prey Typically in PVP is the Tactical/Sci Combo. Where you use Tac skills for your kills, and Sci skills to help soften the enemy. Usual Set up I've seen revolves around Photonic Shockwave and maybe even Charged Particle Burst. How ever in the current system that I'm seeing.. It will be near impossible to get a build with the skills you could use before with any thing that resembles ease. Not to mention there's the requirement to Spec into Stealth (more then likely) And worse is the Sci Captians that Fly BoPS and having to also add in Sensors. You litterally have to spread your self so thin that you won't get anything what you could in the current live system.

Also, they are trying to promote that you'll be able to go back and forth between ships eaisly. The only ships I could see you going back and forth between are either A: Ships in the same class (Escort with another Escort) or B: Escort to Cruiser or Sci Ship to Carrier or Sci Ship to Sci Specilized BoP (But why?)

Seriously, with the way this is looking.. I'll demand dinner from Cryptic before I allow any further fraternization on my part..

Edit:

What I feel they really should do, is not exactly throw this iteration out, but at least give us more skill points to that we have close to the amount of ability to get builds we could get before. Either what or perhaps introduce another Skill Bump, OR just introduce the suggested No Skill Cap back in Beta. Because while I'm sure they could get away with not removing the Skill Cap by using the Level Caps as ways to do it, It's not fun having to wait for the Skill cap to raise again.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 13
11-05-2011, 12:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirai View Post
NGE. No. It doesn't remotely resemble the massive game scrambling that was NGE. Thus the OP's point has failed.

Now if you were to compare it to the City of Heroes Global Defense Nerfs (GDN), or even Enhancement Diversification (ED), I might take the point a bit more seriously.
No? It's not? Really? Have you even looked at the Skill system.. And not only that but the way Consoles and Deflectors are working now? It's not a NGE? Why not? Because it hasn't hit Ground skills yet? Guess what. That's also coming to a planet near you soon..
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 14
11-05-2011, 02:39 AM
The comparison to the NGE is not fair. NGE would mean the game was basically unrecognizable compared to how it was before. I don't like all of the changes, but for the most part they probably can be gotten used to, and they aren't game breaking.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 15
11-05-2011, 04:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kilawpilath View Post
No? It's not? Really? Have you even looked at the Skill system.. And not only that but the way Consoles and Deflectors are working now? It's not a NGE? Why not? Because it hasn't hit Ground skills yet? Guess what. That's also coming to a planet near you soon..
If the changes also meant that Science and Engineer characters went away and that combat was now FPS, I might be more inclined to compare the new system to NGE. Comparing the skill changes to NGE is just pointless histrionics.

In City of Heroes, the Global Defense Nerfs (GDN) significantly changed the resistance and defense values of every power that provided defense and resistance. This wrecked many many builds that existed at the time, causing players to have to figure out the new powers and use respecs, adapting to the much different defensive values. My own Invulnerability Tanker, for instance, lost most of her damage protection and had to be restructured from the ground up to be survivable. So, overall, I'd be more willing to compare the GDN changes to the new skill changes in this game.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 16
11-05-2011, 05:13 AM
keeping in mind the system is not finished or even fully balanced, im not seeing a huge problem. skills are doing slightly different numbers than before. this affects everybody. how is it in anyway like NGE thats numbers are slightly different. so space combat might be fractionally tougher here and there. thats probably a good thing.

yes its easier to go between ships of the same type, from escort to escort but there should still be a big difference between going from an escort to a cruiser. you can get away with it but if you want to max out you need to respec. that should never change. respecs should be much easier to get than they are with an in game way coming back.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 17
11-05-2011, 05:15 AM
In no way shape or form is this an epic fail as NGE. In NGE they pigeonholed you into the 9 specific builds.

They are actually giving you MORE flexibility by unbinding specific ships and binding abilities instead. I think it is pure and utter win.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 18
11-05-2011, 05:22 AM
pure and utter win? really? lol.

now you have to choose do you decide between doing dps, if your healing and or reducing effects happening to you, or triggering said effects. Very little in between. So that means escorts seem to have become sitting ducks even more so then they already are. Yes they can focus on dps which is their role, but then ou decide do i take tanky skills? Oh wait but then i can't take skills that reduce effects of hold etc etc which essentially negate tanky skills. And your left deciding essentially between all the time buffs or buffs that only trigger when you use X skill.

In my mind a buff that is ALWAYS going to effect things, and usually multiple things at that, they are a better purchase then things that only effect one thing and only when you use a particular boff skill.

I think all skill should have some all the time passive bonus and then has an effect on one more more skills. Instead of all skills either being an all the time flat bonus or a buffs x skill
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 19
11-05-2011, 06:52 AM
Just to quote a line:
------------------------------------
"now you have to choose do you decide between doing dps, if your healing and or reducing effects happening to you, or triggering said effects."
---------------------------------------

Isn't that the point of the changes? You shouldn't be able to do everything, that is the current problem with the game. I can roll up in my escort, with fully buffed healing abilities while popping off as much dmg as possible. THAT is what is ridiculous.

In the new system you will have to specialize a bit more, decide what is most important to you and everything else is secondary. This games PvE and PvP are pretty much idiot proof. I can fly Elite space, half asleep and STILL not even remotely worry about not winning the fight. I don't call that "elite"

Hell, I can run advanced and only use half my abilities to gain victory every time...and that isn't even including captain skills which I don't even think about most of the time. That isn't very "advanced."

I know people are going to be ****ed that they are losing their god mode here but really, its for the best. Now you actually have to play the game without uber buffs across the board in DPS, healing AND CC. Heaven forbid you have an opportunity cost involved, thank goodness F2P is getting that right.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 20
11-05-2011, 06:57 AM
Neutral voice here -- not promoting any pro or con...

But has anyone looked at this from the different perspective of ship balance in that the skill tree revamp may have a secondary purpose to rebalance long-standing issues of ship balance, rather than rebalancing the ships themselves?

Admittedly I am late to the party -- I transferred over two of my Klingon charactors just this week -- but when I respecced my Engineer, who is flying a Negh'Var, I actuallly gained some resists, and slightly better manueverability (turn radius and inertia). My hull and shields strengths remain unchanged. Although I lost 1.4% on my overal defense rating (on Holodeck, I am at 60%, on Tribble, 58.6%), I went from around 10% resists across the board to 11.5% resists across the board.

Bottom line is that if there is a hidden nerf...then it is something that will effect every player across the entire spectrum of ships-- which doesn't equal a nerf per se -- it evens the playing field, but specific ships are not buffed or nerfed because every player is subject to the same "rebalancing" which in turn nullifies/neutralizes any perceived advantage or nerf involved.

Having said all that...this is just the first shot at the skill revamp system - it is still in draft form -- so finding problems out now is to our benefit.
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