Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 21 Elitism is a myth
11-10-2011, 11:25 AM
If I may play devil's advocate here, I think hurleybird is just trying to help.

There seems to be an us vs them mentality when it comes to PvP and PvE players. The simple fact is that PvP is harder than PvE, and if you're going to survive in PvP then you have to want to improve and learn how to play more effectively.

Its not about bragging and posturing, and nor is it about elitism. I dont think that hurleybird calling out someone on the forums as not knowing what they are talking about counts as elitism.

Its really unfair to call PvPers a cancer, or that PvPers need to get over themselves. I understand where you're coming from with this comment, though. When a BoP decloaks and melts you in 2 seconds flat, its REALLY galling! You weren't ready and you could have beaten him if it had been on your terms. etc... (I'm writing from personal experience here!). You get mad, and you imagine the BoP pilot to be mocking you. Well they're not.

PvP is for everyone and its a lot of fun. However, because you're playing competelively with other people you have to have the right attitude. Its supposed to be about friendly sportsmanship, but if you let is get to you and start complaining and focusing on the negtaive then you wont endear yourself to your fellow PvPers!

Being ganked in PvP does kind of suck, but you'll never learn how to get better if your opponent just holds your hand. Try to figure out what went wrong, then pick yourself up and try again. Ask questions in zone chat. If you get hit with some crazy ability and you dont know what it was, dont whine about sci spam, ask what the ability was and how you can counter it next time.

A bit of smack-talk is par for the course. Dont let it get under your skin (this is handy IRL too!!). If someone is being a douche, then just add them to your ignore list. Most PvPers are decent people.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 22
11-10-2011, 11:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hakaishin
Not true. I can 1-shot any escort, and 2-shot any cruiser.

It is rare any PvP opponent survives longer than 5 seconds from the time I decloak.

In a cruiser.

I don't know a single escort in the game that can do that.

No Defiant, MVAM, etc in the game can do the same to me.

"Pound for pound", it depends ENTIRELY on the build and captain, NOT the ship.
I know several and they are without redemption. its like magic in space.
KDF and Fed. I have seen them on shot and crit a cruiser for 100K but most players don't meet that fiat.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 23
11-10-2011, 12:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nor-Man
The key to remember about escorts is that, for the most part, they are small. Very small usually. They simply don't have the sheer "beef" that cruisers do. Smaller ship means smaller warp core and smaller fusion generators. They just don't have the power to run all the things a Cruiser can, this includes holidecks, racketball courts, fancy furnishings from the replicater, and yes, even wepons.

Now, it should be noted that escorts can carry cannons. Lots of cannons. If you fully outfit your ship with duel cannons, that theoretically means 8 forward facing wepons on a tier 5 ship. The best a cruiser can muster is 4. And escourts are like half to a quarter the size! Escourts are fully capable of taking on cruisers despite their much smaller size because they are hard to hit and hit back with a vengence.

I guess my real response is that pound for pound, Escorts DO have more wepons than cruisers.
Unless the cruiser uses dual beam banks.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 24
11-10-2011, 12:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KnightTemplar_99 View Post

My point, and it has been made even by those arguing semantics on here, is that there is absolutely no reason anyone should EVER use an Escort in Star Trek Online. There is Absolutely no point to them. One on one, assuming players are evenly matched with tear, skill, and rank, a Cruiser will ALWAYS beat an Escort, 5 Cruisers will Always beat 5 Escorts, 5 Cruisers will Always beat 2 Cruisers and 3 Escorts. This is the only MMO I know of where there is one "class" in the game (in this case Escorts) that is completely and utterly worthless and put in merely to take up space and one "class" that can't be beaten except by others of that class.
I would very much like to see this battle happen, I am assuming that you fly a Cruiser, as the way you put ALWAYS in your comment, made me smile, thanks for making my day, made me chuckle....

I like my little ''Escort'', will probably always use them, I have played the bigger ships and tried them out, I always go back to my Escort.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 25
11-10-2011, 01:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hakaishin

Yet what's the first thing done whenever we enter a system that we so much as THINK has a POTENTIAL enemy?

We blow it to hell without a second thought.

We play STO, not canon Star Trek. With that said... we bend to STO's rules.

By those rules... Galaxy-X = warship.

I agree with you there
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 26
11-10-2011, 01:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hurleybird View Post
Rofl.

The combination of PvErs pretending to be PvPers and arguing about definitions like role players is simply too rich.

Real PvPers don't join PvE fleets. Wouldn't be caught dead. Even the "special PvP divisions" of PvE fleets are embarrassingly bad at this game.

Tac in a cruiser.... individually it can work, but in general it is a bad idea to throw in a premade team. It's worked from time to time for some very high caliber teams like TSI, but never for a low caliber team.

But this topic is a very good example of why these types of fleets fail so hard -- people who PvP in PvE fleets do whatever the hell they want with no thought on actually creating a decent team with complementary builds.

The sad thing is how easy it is to make a great PvP team. Run three sci/sci, an eng/cruiser hybrid healer, and a tacscort. Practice teamwork, rapid target switching, and cross healing. Play a couple hours each day with this setup and within a week you'll be better than all of the fail premades out there.

Bread and butter. Then try the boutique stuff. And don't pretend to be a serious PvPer with all the answers when in reality you're some random scrub in a PvE fleet -- it makes you look incredibly silly to everyone who knows better.

That statement was out of line. Theres no need to insult other people because you feel that they are "below" you. People have there preferences and many even accept those preferences shortfalls. I know I have a knock for making what I like work ( I wouldn't say I'm the best, nor am I the worst).I've seen all sorts of combos work welll in PvP that I didn't think would. Same with fleets, I prefer PvP, but my fleet is mostly PvE, those of us who PvP spend more time together in PvP zones, but most of us had the fleet friends before we started this game and we do work on the teamwork issue. I don't care what fleet a person belongs to, it's the individual.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 27
11-10-2011, 01:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nor-Man
Now, it should be noted that escorts can carry cannons. Lots of cannons. If you fully outfit your ship with duel cannons, that theoretically means 8 forward facing wepons on a tier 5 ship. The best a cruiser can muster is 4.
What if a cruiser would mount say 4 dual beam banks in the front and 4 turrets in the rear.........that would give 12 weapons that can shoot forwards :p

Not that it's recommended mind you, LOL
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 28
11-10-2011, 06:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Basic_Infantry View Post
What if a cruiser would mount say 4 dual beam banks in the front and 4 turrets in the rear.........that would give 12 weapons that can shoot forwards :p

Not that it's recommended mind you, LOL

Okay. Sure. But, then, I get 10. And I can build 5 of my ship with the materials it takes to build one of yours. In "Real Life" that is.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 29
11-10-2011, 08:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nor-Man
Okay. Sure. But, then, I get 10. And I can build 5 of my ship with the materials it takes to build one of yours. In "Real Life" that is.
LOL there's no way in hell I'd run my cruiser with that setup

I was thinking about all turrets on my VA cruiser... for tons of WTF moments from others
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 30
11-10-2011, 09:46 PM
Single cannons with turrets in the rear works quite well.

**with rapid fire**
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