Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 111
11-08-2011, 11:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdangelo View Post
Then when we were looking at the Veteran Rewards tables for 700+ days, we wanted to fill the hole at 600 days that was created by the Dilithium economy shift. The design team felt that putting the token in at this level would be a way to preserve the token for the most loyal, long term customers without having any substantial number of players getting it. Since we didn't have any other great ideas for something to fill the slot, we went ahead and put it in there.

From this thread, it sounds like the decision isn't popular with everyone. I will have my team discuss the possibility of something else being in the 600 day reward in addition to the token. But I can say that the token won't be getting easier to get than the 600 day mark.
If you want to improve the 600 day reward, which by your admission was already lackluster, by returning the VA Token as a vet reward than more power to you. But the 250 emblems were removed from the 500 day reward. I know that for a fact, I was two months away from getting it when you pulled it (I'm still sore about it. ). So under the current plan with no replacement for the removed 500 day reward those of us who missed it because we didn't start playing the game soon enough but have still supported you monetarily with subscriptions and/or the lifetime subscription and/or continual C-Store purchase get nothing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OlBuzzard
Are we looking for a reward that is for ships only ? Could the VA toke be replaced with something that is still unique and has a solid application? Having a name or title on a ship (IMHO is of little consequence ) . Having a special item (ie: ship) is very cool. Perhaps a dress uniform?
Unlocking ship registries (while keeping canon ones locked) so you can have one that starts with a 5, 6, 7, or 8 and give your ship a little bit of RP history would be an excellent reward that would cost Cryptic nothing more than wage of the employee who gets assigned to implement it.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 112
11-08-2011, 11:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Presticus View Post
Unlocking ship registries (while keeping canon ones locked) so you can have one that starts with a 5, 6, 7, or 8 and give your ship a little bit of RP history would be an excellent reward that would cost Cryptic nothing more than wage of the employee who gets assigned to implement it.
That's an interesting idea (although I don't mind the range as I've been using 6 digit registries lately so mine can begin with anything from 1-9. I can see the history idea being neat). However, another idea would be adding items usable before the ship's name, like ISS instead of USS (etc).
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 113
11-09-2011, 01:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdangelo View Post
without having any substantial number of players getting it.
So, how's that negligible retention rate working out?

Expecting more than half of characters to make it past level 21, ever?

No, of course not. You're monetizing from the very start of the game now.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 114
11-09-2011, 06:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan_Kent View Post
This would appear to be a more accurate statement.

The compromise is better than loosing the token to be sure, but at a time like this statements like this...



...Do not breed good public image.

Still honesty is better than silence, at least now we know the mentality behind this for a fact instead of speculation.
I agree. This also tells me that these sort of decisions are nor necessarily comming from inside Cryptic (proper) but rather someone else who is holding the purse strings. My image of someone like that is less than favorable.

Note to Cryptic: I'm certain you are looking for a suitable resolution as well.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 115
11-09-2011, 08:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The.Grand.Nagus View Post
Of course not. However subscribers are not "all players". In fact they are going to be the minority after F2P. So giving your subscribers the VA token after 2 months sub isnt going to hurt your bank. Also, your not giving anything away "free" to subscribers because they are subscribing.
This is exactly the point, we're PAYING you're giving us nothing for free, so giving the gold members a VA token at VA (and Klingons at LG) is not going to hurt your bank. If anything it'll entice more people to pay 15 bucks a month, which is MORE MONEY FOR YOU.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 116
11-09-2011, 09:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by OlBuzzard
these sort of decisions are not necessarily coming from inside Cryptic (proper)
I got the opposite impression to be honest.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 117
11-09-2011, 09:16 AM
It is blatantly obvious the Gold member stuff is only for lifetime members. They have to honour the LTS or the negative PR they would take would be monumentally worse and the chances of anyone buying future LTS would fall through the floor as noone trusts Cryptic.

Subscribers are just a bonus for Cryptic, they want F2P folks to **** through the C-Store and they have no business sense to understand it is NOT a case of one vs. the other. It would be entirely possible to have subscriptions worthwhile AND provide a F2P model. LOTRO flourished going F2P and allows both to work extremely well.

Cryptic: Hurr, we dont wanna give the VA token cause its exploitable... instead we will give it after 600 days because we are creatively bankrupt for offering anything else as a vet reward.
Huh, why are all these people saying mean things and acting all angry... it isnt in our best business intrest to offer it earlier cause... people will be paying to get the ship as subscribers... while the F2P will be paying to get the ship as subscribers. We want more of the latter... not the former because its better for business.

Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 118
11-09-2011, 01:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The.Grand.Nagus View Post
Of course not. However subscribers are not "all players". In fact they are going to be the minority after F2P. So giving your subscribers the VA token after 2 months sub isnt going to hurt your bank. Also, your not giving anything away "free" to subscribers because they are subscribing.
This is "cold hard truth" to put it mildly. STOP MILKING YOUR PLAYER BASE!.

Removing 2 Vet awards then giving one back in a hard to understand seriously over the top long time frame is not "love" its crap to be honest.

Since your own DEV team can't agree on the day number it indicates a lack of communication within your team that you as the leader should address, if your OWN TEAM is not on the same page, how do you expect those of us who currently sub, to be with you?

yes you need to make money, and you will;with the above simple solution, you now have made 5.00 MORE profit rather than the 25 or so you'd make before. More money is good for your bottom line and this clearly is more money.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 119
11-09-2011, 01:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdangelo View Post
The way things worked out here at Cryptic is that, after the post which was quoted at the start of this thread, we decided that we were definitely not going to re-instate the free Vice Admiral Ship Token for all players. It isn't in the best interest of our business. I know that it is unpopular, but that is the decision we made. And we plan to stick with it.

The posting that was quoted states that our initial thinking was that it was a bad idea to give out the token for all Gold members, and that we were thinking about other options. We explored a number of options for giving out the token, including quite a few clever ones that people on the forums posted. After intense consideration and modeling, we did not find any option that we felt fit out needs. The whole idea of the "exploit" that started our initial thinking (and which I posted about) became just a minor point once we did deeper analysis. So we were planning for there to be no way to get this token any longer.

Then when we were looking at the Veteran Rewards tables for 700+ days, we wanted to fill the hole at 600 days that was created by the Dilithium economy shift. The design team felt that putting the token in at this level would be a way to preserve the token for the most loyal, long term customers without having any substantial number of players getting it. Since we didn't have any other great ideas for something to fill the slot, we went ahead and put it in there.

From this thread, it sounds like the decision isn't popular with everyone. I will have my team discuss the possibility of something else being in the 600 day reward in addition to the token. But I can say that the token won't be getting easier to get than the 600 day mark.


While I don't come with good news this time, I can say that I really respect how you all are fighting to make the game as good as it can be. And I like how constructive you are being in this thread. We are working hard as well, with the same goal of making the game great. We are listening, but we are also looking at the business. If the business side doesn't work, then the game won't get new content and won't grow.

We are using the F2P launch as a reason to invest a lot into STO, and we're looking to grow the game substantially next year with new content, new play options, and so on. Going F2P requires some rethinking, though, of elements of the game. Some of these I think we're doing well on, and other not so much. But we're trying. And I appreciate when you all let us know what you think. It helps us, even when you are not seeing responses like this all the time. Thanks!

Stephen D'Angelo
Executive Producer
Star Trek Online
Wow an honest answer...filled with "don't like it...too bad."

Oh..and the highlighted portion just....I'm speechless.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 120
11-09-2011, 01:44 PM
This game is headed warp speed for disaster.
Quite frankly I can't believe the feeble excuses I'm hearing to cover up bad decisions and sheer incompetence.
Because clearly some in management seems to be oblivious to the reality of what happens when you screw too much with the existing playerbase.
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