Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 11
11-09-2011, 12:33 PM
Hrm...okay then. I would much prefer it if ground skills actually had an impact on ground combat, but apparently they don't. Sounds like I need to do some major ground testing.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 12
11-09-2011, 12:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TantalusOmega
Holy crap, Suavek, you're right! My Field Emitter consoles used to provide +7 to shield power and now only provide +3.5. The EPS Flow Regulator has been similarly nerfed, as you said. The only other console that was changed was the Hazard System, which makes sense, but those first two changes were unnecessary nerfs as far as I can tell. So, I guess most of my negatives are coming from nerfed consoles, not the skills themselves.

Cryptic, I want either an explanation for this nerf or a rollback for all non skill-buffing consoles.
IMHO there really needs to ba simple balance between these issues. If I did not know better I would say that there has been an OVER reaction to the "slow the game down" theory.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 13
11-09-2011, 02:15 PM
Actually, I think the game should be slowed down a little. Nerfing consoles has nothing to do with that, however, unless you mean 'slow down the pace of combat' (I assume you don't, and are referring to the game's ultra fast character progression as I am). I'd be fine with it if the devs wanted to reduce exp rewards a little from where they are on Holodeck. I wouldn't be fine with it if they wanted to make player ships weaker so that combat takes longer or is more challenging. Some fights shouldn't be challenging. A brand new Starfleet cruiser should tear through a decades-old Cardassian Galor like tissue paper since the Cardassians aren't allowed to upgrade their military (granted, the True Way would probably find ways to smuggle in upgrades, but those would probably be the exception, not the rule). As it stands, I had an easier time with three Jem'Hadar attack ships than with a single Galor. That makes no sense to me given that Jem'Hadar ships seemed to be superior to Cardassian ships in DS9.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 14
11-09-2011, 02:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TantalusOmega
Actually, I think the game should be slowed down a little. Nerfing consoles has nothing to do with that, however, unless you mean 'slow down the pace of combat' (I assume you don't, and are referring to the game's ultra fast character progression as I am). I'd be fine with it if the devs wanted to reduce exp rewards a little from where they are on Holodeck. I wouldn't be fine with it if they wanted to make player ships weaker so that combat takes longer or is more challenging. Some fights shouldn't be challenging. A brand new Starfleet cruiser should tear through a decades-old Cardassian Galor like tissue paper since the Cardassians aren't allowed to upgrade their military (granted, the True Way would probably find ways to smuggle in upgrades, but those would probably be the exception, not the rule). As it stands, I had an easier time with three Jem'Hadar attack ships than with a single Galor. That makes no sense to me given that Jem'Hadar ships seemed to be superior to Cardassian ships in DS9.
There is a difference between slowing the game down and nerffing. On this we can agree. What I was suggesting is that the nerfs we are seeing are a direct result to the IDEA of slowing down the game. IMHO nerfing stuff this badly is not really slowing down the game. Is it making it more difficult (hense slowing it down) .. nope just a lot of senless furstration due to ships that don't work as they should.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 15
11-09-2011, 03:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by OlBuzzard
There is a difference between slowing the game down and nerffing. On this we can agree. What I was suggesting is that the nerfs we are seeing are a direct result to the IDEA of slowing down the game. IMHO nerfing stuff this badly is not really slowing down the game. Is it making it more difficult (hense slowing it down) .. nope just a lot of senless furstration due to ships that don't work as they should.
Makes sense to me that what we are seeing is a purposeful slowing down of the game via the skill tree and equipment changes. THough they may be over nerfing some things.

It also seems as if the Devs have designed the SKill tree to represent a Players vessel in Stats (Hull, Shields, light science) then Comabt effectiveness and leaves the higher end concept abilites ( ApX's, HIgh Science, high Engineering) as those special things a Player choice brings to play.

The equipment changes make sense to match the new skill system, though I am confused about how I can see the same scores for some consoles acros three different marks.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 16
11-09-2011, 03:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roach View Post
Makes sense to me that what we are seeing is a purposeful slowing down of the game via the skill tree and equipment changes. THough they may be over nerfing some things.

It also seems as if the Devs have designed the SKill tree to represent a Players vessel in Stats (Hull, Shields, light science) then Comabt effectiveness and leaves the higher end concept abilites ( ApX's, HIgh Science, high Engineering) as those special things a Player choice brings to play.

The equipment changes make sense to match the new skill system, though I am confused about how I can see the same scores for some consoles acros three different marks.
From what I'm seeing (numbers wise) .. and what others have sent me via messages while in game on Tribble, the new consoles leave a lot to be desired. I'm guessing that the new theory is put the new stuff out there and let the players deal with it. Once the players get the hang of it .. it will all be old hat. New players wont care. Soooo somehow I don't see that as listening .. really.

I can see why they would produce new stuff. That in and of itself maakes sense: in order to better compliment the new sklii tree. However given the overwheling outcry concerning the skill tree 9and subsequently the related equipment and consoles ) .. add them all togeather and the combination becomes more than just a slow down. It really does become less than fun.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 17
11-09-2011, 05:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TantalusOmega
Hrm...okay then. I would much prefer it if ground skills actually had an impact on ground combat, but apparently they don't. Sounds like I need to do some major ground testing.

It's not so much that ground skills don't make a difference (they do, for Sci heals it's around 50% extra heal when specced and longer duration NHM when specced) but more that normal level PvE is incredibly easy.
Normal PvE requires no ground skill points, Advanced is a little more difficult and they're helpful but not necessary but on Elite a decent ground spec is probably wise (if you're a Tac anyway). Your BOffs with pulsewaves will do a lot of damage but they're also mildly retarded and go down fast, deployables like shield generators and medical generators will be destroyed easily (NPCs love generators and aggro on them all the time) so they aren't really useful with all the AoEs that get thrown around so the only real damage dealer will be you. It should also be remembered that all NPCs have shields on Advanced and above whereas the low level NPCs are unshielded on Normal and they make a pretty big difference as they prevent you from one shotting multiple NPCs with a split beam rifle as the opening volley.
If you're a Sci you'll be OK with a basic spec but Tacs are pretty fragile and when you have 14k of NPC to burn through; the lack of heals is painfully noticeable with no ground points as you'll deal little damage and have no heals to mitigate incoming damage. But as mentioned this only really applies to Elite, below that it isn't particularly important.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 18
11-09-2011, 05:49 PM
Testing I did before getting bored:

Science Captain Abilities:

Starship Dampening Field III:
(Tribble: 99 to all Damage Resistance)
(Holodeck: 187 to all Damage Resistance)

Science Fleet II:
(Tribble: Reduces Damge to Shields by 27% / + 12 ___ / + 12 ___)
(Holodeck: Reduces Damge to Shields by 54% / + 16 Starship Operations Training)

Tactical Captain Abilities:

Tactical Fleet II:
(Tribble: + 22% All Damage / + 12 Starship Maneuvers / + 12 Starship Targeting Systems)
(Holodeck: + 31% All Damage / + 16 Starship Attack Vectors)

Go Down Fighting III:
(Tribble: + 20% All Damage (Lower Hull = Damage)
(Holodeck: + 52% All Damage (Lower Hull = Damage)

Attack Pattern Alpha III:
(Tribble: + 50% All Damage / + 5% Critical Chance / + 50% Critical Severity / + 120% Flight Turn Rate)
(Holodeck: + 63% All Damage / + 4.2% Critical Chance / + 42% Critical Severity / + 80% Flight Turn Rate)

Tactical Commander:

Attack Pattern Omega III:
(Tribble: + 25% All Damage / + 37% All Damage Resistance / + 171% Flight Turn Rate / + 45% Defensive Strength)
(Holodeck: + 52% All Damage / + 32% All Damage Resistance / + 143% Flight Turn Rate / + 30% Defensive Strength)

Attack Pattern Beta III:
(Tribble: - 50 All Damage Resistance / - 199 Stealth Strength)
(Holodeck: - 42 All Damage Resistance / - 158 Stealth Strength)
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 19
11-09-2011, 06:37 PM
I think they will have to make new tactical consoles for "energy damage in %" and "kinetic damage in %" instead of keeping two different kinds of consoles with the EXACT same values below. The mine and torpedo consoles now both have an increase of kinetic damage in general, and the cannon and beam consoles now both have an increase of energy damage in general. That's a chance to simplify the tactical consoles at least a bit.

What I really like is the difference of increase for specific energy weapon or projectile types compared to the global ones. Now it makes sense again to look out for the "Phaser Relay" consoles instead of the "Energy Manifold" ones.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 20
11-10-2011, 06:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by OlBuzzard
From what I'm seeing (numbers wise) .. and what others have sent me via messages while in game on Tribble, the new consoles leave a lot to be desired. I'm guessing that the new theory is put the new stuff out there and let the players deal with it. Once the players get the hang of it .. it will all be old hat. New players wont care. Soooo somehow I don't see that as listening .. really.

I can see why they would produce new stuff. That in and of itself maakes sense: in order to better compliment the new sklii tree. However given the overwheling outcry concerning the skill tree 9and subsequently the related equipment and consoles ) .. add them all togeather and the combination becomes more than just a slow down. It really does become less than fun.
Thats the fine line they have to walk.
Too slow and nobody likes it and STO dies
Too fast and nobody likes it and STO dies.
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 11:41 AM.