Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 11
11-09-2011, 11:12 PM
The logic is contorted for sure. I hope that you can see my recognition of that. As voting best for something when your feelings say otherwise (as mine do) is contrary to the category but I'm not asking you to vote on the category, I'm asking you to vote for a specific reason.

As someone mentioned above about Lego Universe Online... there will be no point in IT winning it's category when the game is effectively shut down. Such awards are used to bolster a games image for attracting future players. The award is no prize, it provides no direct funding or real material value - but it is something this game will need if it is to raise its image and a chance at surviving (while content and fixes of flaws are needed to KEEP those new players around to guarantee survival).

I could have easily have listed all the positive things STO has done to try and convince you - but since that is subjective and irrelevant to the point I'm making in asking you to vote on, I didn't.

If you decide not to vote, then you can hardly complain that the game will continue to suffer in image on such sites (mostly weighted by the game's less than stellar launch), and you should hardly consider yourself a proponent for keeping STO online as a game, when your really just an opponent of Cryptic's bad management of that game. The distinction lies in how there are good things about STO which are not connected to Bad things about Cryptic - yet instead of supporting the good things and helping STO raise it's image about them, you just write those positives off based on the actions of it's company (but still play it with a hope of it staying online for you to play).

Its contorted logic for sure, but its a sacrifice people can decide to make on their feelings to help raise the image. If you've sacrificed too much already, then don't vote, or be surprised if STO's image doesn't change because of it.

You may want to also make a reminder for yourself to post on multiple forums and gaming sites about all the things you feel are positive about the game - but we all know things don't swing in that way in general, which is why opportunities to raise the image should be acted upon.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 12
11-09-2011, 11:15 PM
STO is a game of tremendous potential that will never be realized. It doesn't deserve any awards, and won't be getting MY vote.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 13
11-09-2011, 11:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nynik
Vote up for STO in the " Best Non-Fantasy MMO of 2011 " and " Best New F2P MMO " categories as well as other applicable ones and lets try bring home a win.
How in the HELL does this game deserve and award? More positie attention, maybe. But this game is hardly award winning material.

I don't WANT this game to fail, but I can see that it isn't going to live up the the Star Trek name. It was on its way with cloaked intentions, but those days are long over. And with the buyout and format change (that coul dhave been done MUCH more smoothly? Oh, and what about the bugs that have not been fixed in 2 years (you know, since you mentioned the "bad year" thye've had)?

No. No award here. Well, not that I can see, anyway.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 14
11-09-2011, 11:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nynik
The award is no prize, it provides no direct funding or real material value
The award is the recognition for creating a game that people think is better than the others. The basic concept being: the games that work the hardest to be the best, earn the praise. While the other games, good as they may be, will have to work harder to win that accolade.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nynik


If you decide not to vote, then you can hardly complain that the game will continue to suffer in image on such sites (mostly weighted by the game's less than stellar launch)

The poor reviews STO receives, is neither my doing nor my responsibility to improve. The fault, and responsibility lie with STO and STO alone. Unless they want to add me to their payroll to be a positive PR person. If they want to improve their public image, it's their responsibility to do so.

Not only would voting for a game I didn't think was the best would be lacking integrity, it would diminish the accomplishments of the games that truly earned that rightly title.

If STO wants to be voted best game, they have to, brace yourself for a bizarre concept, EARN it. They aren't getting a sympathy vote in the hopes it will make them improve things.

The flip slide to your contorted logic is: if they get voted best game now, where's the incentive for them to try to improve? Why try to better your product when someone is going to vote you best regardless of what you do?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 15
11-09-2011, 11:38 PM
I'm sorry nynik, but you're way out there on that limb, and you're sawing through it pretty quick.

Companies get good PR from providing good service and creating happy customers.

Cryptic has utterly failed in this over the last 3/4ths of this year, and the unhappiness of their loyal customerbase has only eroded further due to the drastic change in attitude, development and business priorities for Star Trek Online since their acquisition by PWI and the push to F2P.

If we were to reward them with our votes anyway, it could serve as a false reinforcement that they have popular support currently.

Conversely, if they see a dropoff in voting from last year, the message will be clear; its not just the angry forum crowd who doesn't like the "new" Cryptic, and perhaps it will be the wakeup call that puts an end to this madness.

What can I say, I can still dream. I'm not that jaded, yet.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 16
11-09-2011, 11:45 PM
Voting for STO in this poll when i don't actually believe my vote is truthful only dilutes the validity of it. I won't participate in making massiveonlinegamer's poll look like a laughing stock in some vain, corporate shill attempt to prop up Cryptics profit margins.

No I won't be satisfied if STO fails, but in the end that's not up to me. I will vote for STO when I think it deserves it, let the devs use that as incentive to do better.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 17
11-09-2011, 11:45 PM
As I said in the official thread, my vote is for sale Cryptic. 20k C-Points and I'll be happy to vote for STO. Everything else not nailed down is for sale, and even a few that are, so why not.

But on a serious note, STO in no way deserves any awards after this year, or after the PR disaster after PR disaster F2P testing has brought so far. Voting them up will only make them think we believe they are doing a bang up job, which they most certainly are not.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 18
11-10-2011, 12:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by USS_Chronos
The award is the recognition for creating a game that people think is better than the others. The basic concept being: the games that work the hardest to be the best, earn the praise. While the other games, good as they may be, will have to work harder to win that accolade.
I agree with you. But this poll doesn't take the work of other games into consideration (in general). What will be taken away by its conclusion is the winner and not the competition. What doesn't get the attention in voting, are the various positive efforts those other games made, perhaps moreso than the 'winner'. In general, people are voting against those games without having the knowledge about who truly earned the accolade of best, but who they wish to receive the accolade based on the game they will likely play.

This devalues it from being a competition of merit, to being a competition on image. Its data is sourced on image as shown in how it does not provide comparative information on efforts made by various games to earn each category accolade etc.

Quote:
The poor reviews STO receives, is neither my doing nor my responsibility to improve. The fault, and responsibility lie with STO and STO alone.
Partially correct. While you may not go about creating a negative image of STO, you also may not do so positively. And your not expected to either ofc. However, to combat either people with an interest in seeing the game fail or succeed will take action.

Quote:
Unless they want to add me to their payroll to be a positive PR person. If they want to improve their public image, it's their responsibility to do so.
All games promote themselves in a good light, or try to. What really carries weight, for anyone who actually bases their decision to play or quit on community perceptions about a game, are the views spread by the community of gamers (not necessarily a particular game's players). Which is why such potential image enhancing drives like this, ask for gamer input as opposed to a paid reviewer. Because it has greater value than pr staff.

Quote:
If STO wants to be voted best game, they have to, brace yourself for a bizarre concept, EARN it. They aren't getting a sympathy vote in the hopes it will make them improve things.
We're not voting for it to be best game, we're voting for it to improve its image. And as I said, if it will not get your vote to improve its image (if you think there has been no improvements that qualify as improving STO) then don't be surprised if that image doesn't change.

People who feel strongly against something make it known in larger proportions than those who support things. By choosing to remain impartial your signing off on other people having a deciding influence on the future of a game you may enjoy but decide not to help promote.

Quote:
The flip slide to your contorted logic is: if they get voted best game now, where's the incentive for them to try to improve? Why try to better your product when someone is going to vote you best regardless of what you do?
This is just for now, as the game uses its last playing card for life. I am not advocating a lifelong commitment to voting against your feelings and for something the category doesn't specify.

The incentive is for keeping the award for the next year, as well as staying online by retaining new players brought in by an enhanced image in order to give STO the chance to make the product better.

This thread asks that you vote for STO to help raise its image so that it will have better grounds to succeed. Not to vote for it based on if you think its the best game (which I already clarified as being subjective to the point of irrelevance in that poll).
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 19
11-10-2011, 12:11 AM
Thank you OP for posting this thread. I've seen you post some extremely and unnecessarily long winded comments in other threads and up until now I havent been able to decide if you are actually making a decent point of if you were just someone who essentially liked the sound of their own voice and was just saying a bunch of nonsense. After reading your posts in this thread trying to explain how people should vote for a game they dont actually think is best I can finally tell it is the later and wont need to worry with reading any more of those long winded posts in the future
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 20
11-10-2011, 12:14 AM
Glad to help reduce your forum reading load Edwardo_Cullen. I don't post for the sake of it and as I said, (not that you'll read it now) I accept and agree with the point on it not being a deserved award.

But what about the point of worsening the game's prospects of survival (a game you very much want to keep going) by not sacrificing your feelings this time around? If the game is offline, does that balance the equation of having not sacrificed on your feelings given its counter to what you want (the game's survival).

Its an extreme to suggest one person will have this impact, I know, but I'm talking about generalities and how much more prevalent negative perceptions will always be, even if they are not based on accurate information eg. launch vs STO today.

If 1000 people who want the game to go on, stand by and do nothing to help improve its image when its on its last stand for massive public awareness - are they spiting the game (and their desire to keep playing) by not sacrificing their feelings? Is it an ultimate benefit for them that the game they enjoy (or at least enjoy parts of) close?

Its very interesting to me to think so. I got thinking about all of this when I saw how little a response the official STO article posting got on this vote. It really seemed like people are prepared to standby and let the all the positive aspects of the game they enjoy slip (and after f2p we're talking offline here not just a declining game) just because they want to punish Cryptic for 10 months of neglect.

There are certainly times beyond gaming when we find ourselves in situations where we are presented an option of what is best for us, and what our feelings may say is contrary.

Perhaps I am sawing off the wrong limb afterall. I found it of particular interest.
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