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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 21
11-14-2011, 10:25 PM
I agree this seems fixable in so many ways aside from simply taking it away, that whatever reason they come up with is just hollow excuses/misdirection.

They could gate it so it's say 1 per month per account or something, that would stop (or severely limit) the exploiting. They could flag the dilithium as untradable. They could withhold the award until you reached a certain level, or meter it out as you level (10,000 at spawn, 10,000 at Lt Cmdr, etc). so you couldn't just spam new characters and then shuffle the dilithium off via the exchange, etc.

It's just that taking it away for everyone is the easy/lazy way out since it requires little to no programming, and it also furthers their goal of controlling the economy, creating a scarcity of dilithium so people pay in the Cstore to hop on the currency exchange. Convenient that.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 22
11-14-2011, 11:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by turrick
besides it would of be gone anyways with the new economy, you guys should be mad at the abusers not cryptic doing the right thing by taking it away but at the expense of others who hadn't known or did know but didnt want to abuse due to being wrong to abuse the system. they taken out va token for reaching va already in tribble and yes tribble counts for a reason what happens there happens in holodeck. Making this an issue is dumb to begin with, they need something else beside via tokens at 500 days like ship weapons or hologen for the ship/toon for different ships/races.
Why should we be mad at the "abusers"? To begin with, unless I am missing something, they were not really abusing the system. It was designed to give rewards at VA. The only reason that low level characters are getting the reward is due to the shift in the economy. If these "abusers" were smart enough to foresee that then more credit to them.

If Cryptic wanted to stop people from making low level characters to get dilithium, all they had to do is start awarding the emblems at VA instead of when the character was created. Clearly the abuse was not the overriding reason the emblems were removed.

I was looking forward to the emblems. I do think Cryptic should replace it with an equivalent amount of dilithium. I do not blame the "abusers" though. That is just an excuse because they could have modified the game to give out the emblems without being so easily exploited.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 23
11-14-2011, 11:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schneemann View Post
With borg salvage there is another "currency" beside dilithium. And unlike dilithium it has only the effect to buy a limited number of high level bind on pickup stuff - and is thus also comparable to the current emblems.

Maybe if they don't want to replace those emblems with dilithium, they might could do it with an adequate number of borg salvage with the same buying power?
Bad idea since it undermines the value of the Borg Salvage as a reward for doing STF's.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 24 Here's an Idea!
11-15-2011, 01:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sakarak
Why should we be mad at the "abusers"? To begin with, unless I am missing something, they were not really abusing the system. It was designed to give rewards at VA. The only reason that low level characters are getting the reward is due to the shift in the economy. If these "abusers" were smart enough to foresee that then more credit to them.

If Cryptic wanted to stop people from making low level characters to get dilithium, all they had to do is start awarding the emblems at VA instead of when the character was created. Clearly the abuse was not the overriding reason the emblems were removed.

I was looking forward to the emblems. I do think Cryptic should replace it with an equivalent amount of dilithium. I do not blame the "abusers" though. That is just an excuse because they could have modified the game to give out the emblems without being so easily exploited.
I thought awarding the emblems/dilithuim at VA was how it was. Just make it so you have to make VA to collect the 500 day dilithium reward. Then the worst that can happen for exploitation is for people to start a new toon and level to VA. If they wanna farm dilithium like that, so be it. But i think we should still recieve the amount of dilithium equal to 250 emblems per VA on our accounts.

I hope we can ge a change to this, enough people postabout it, then maybe they will look into fixing it back. But in the end, I hope I don't get punished for not making it to 500 days soon enough.

NOTE TO CRYPTIC: If we cannot get the dilithium, can we get the above mentioned fix with C-store points. (For those of us who have used our VA ship token already.) This is actually is as good as dilithium to me. And can be an excellent fix for those of us who have spent our VA token. And It actually expands 500 day rewards for you, you can get a range of purchases which may peak interest instead of just getting nothing. Maybe if you have spent your VA token, then your will recieve an extra 400 C-Point Stipend for the month if you have a VA. After 500 loyal days, I think this would be a fitting reward. You already give a stipend, how bout an extra C-Point stipend at 500 days instead of a VA token.

Then those of us who have ALREADY used our VA token, but have not made, or made 500 days after the removal of emblems, can actually get something instead of nothing.

So to sum it up.
Replacement for the 250 Emblems: You will recieve a VA ship token when you reach VA. Plus as an added bonus, you will recieve an extra 400 C-Points.
(Players who have VA or VA's upon the transition of F2P (Tribble) to the live sever (Holodeck), will be awarded a one time amount of 400 C-Points per VA.)

Something to this effect, obviously you guys will have to tweak it to make it viable, But maybe a litlle c-points? Or maybe a one time acoount wide 400 C-Points for 500 days. But something anything but a VA token alone. At least so those of us who were unfortunate enough to have not made 500 days in time, don't get passed over. C'mon Zero! Help Me out!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 25
11-15-2011, 02:13 AM
I had made a thread regarding this matter since it effects me greatly along with many of you on this forum. I am surprised that Jupiter Broadcasting is skimming through this problem as if were nothing. Their past recent broadcast kinda made me feel a bit upset, in regards to the 500 day reward debacle.

Keep in mind that the following players may have possibly already received their 250 emblems. I would not imagine they didn't, since they pretty much been around since STO went live: Here is the link of the podcast that explains the 500 vet reward solution - Chalked that one up to Jupiter Force Peregrine Falcon.

http://www.jupiterbroadcasting.com/1...ad-stoked-102/

Here is a crude transcript of what was said:

"And... I'm going to claim credit for this one, even though I've been told it wasn't my idea originally. Is that, those 250 emblems that they took away from us at the 500 Vet Reward, THEY PUT THE VA TOKEN THERE. SO THAT MEANS THAT NOW, WE ESSENTIALLY HAVEN'T LOST ANYTHING. The subscribers, when we go to Free to play live, we haven't lost anything. We play the game just as we did before, we, except that now we also have the DOS system, which I heard some people like, you get to VA, you get your ship token, everythings done." - Peregrine Falcon / Jupiterbroadcasting STOKED 102

No Offense to Peregrine Falcon personally, but that solution that Cryptic provided is not:

A) A fair solution that covers all STO players that have reached their 500 VET Reward

B) It still does not address the lack of balance between those who have received their 250 emblems and those that recently did not

C) No viable reason for its removal before Dec and January 17th F2P launch, except some obscure fear of scam.

D) How can you give back something that previously existed and call it a fair exchange (Talking about VA Token offers PRELAUNCH)

E) The VA Token is rumored to be given at 600 vet reward and not the 500 vet reward (which is insane)

F) The ACTUAL 500 Vet reward is now considered to be in a virtual LIMBO

G) VA Token is recently a redundancy in that once you have already previously obtained it you get royally shafted - 1 VA Token is not even an equivalent reward to the 250 emblems, which many could have used to get top tier gear before F2P launch

H) VA Tokens are useless for those players who BOUGHT a CStore Vessel via the CStore - speaking of the retrofits - unless of course Cryptic made those harder by linking them to Dilithium, if thats the case then thats bad business since many shell out a decent amount of cash for their MVA Escorts etc...

I) Do not state that essentially we have NOT lost anything, you're wrong, many will lose out BIG time

J) A suitable and valuable replacement should be considered - there was postings here about a unique BO of some sort with great traits, I'm not talking about the referral program lame BO

K) Here is a better deal, give us the TR-116 Rifle, make it very rare (Purple), with slightly better stats bound and unreplaceble and perhaps the referral BO or a few cstore points for good measure to sweeten the pot

I just want Cryptic to be fair regarding this matter, that something can be offered that will compensate those of us that LUCKED out, but that will not hurt the economy of the game.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 26
11-15-2011, 02:48 AM
You know, this above post is right. Its funny cause I watched STOked every week. And I have seen above mentioned episode. And that is about exactly what Peregrine Falcon said. I didn't think about it then, but its funny you mentioned it now. I have a feeling that most of Jupiter Forces Higher Leadership, those of them that will be on STOked regularly, probably have been around since launch. Which makes them knowledgeable people. It also make them biased, they have recieved their 250 emblems, so why would they care if something they already recieved gets taken away. "Sure take away the emblems, I already got mine anyway hahaha!"

Then Peregrine gets excited about the addition of something that does absolutely nothing for anyone who hasn't recieved the 250 emblems. Well Peregrine, You just took credit for something in my opinon sucks :p I don't know about your lower fleet members, but everyone in my fleet who hasn't gotten their emblems is highly upset, And those of us who have got them, are just as upset, unlucky fleet members will not see them. Maybe you should talk to your lower level members Jupiter Force. And if they are happy with Peregrine Falcons replacement for the 250 emblems, I am happy for them

If it seems like I am targeting Jupiter Force, I guess I sort of am, you guys have your own show. It comes with the territory. If you want to try to talk for the STO community, I guess you better watch what you say.

As mentioned above, a fair soloution will give something to everyone. Cryptic knows anyone after the tokens were taken away, up until F2P lauches, gets nothing. Why? Cause you will already have a VA token, you get one on holodeck now right now just for making VA. We all know this. So basically, as it is right now, "Perigrine Falcons way" after F2P goes live, if you are a 500 day Vet, you get a shiny VA ship token, unless you already have or used one.

Did you get that. They are taking away a reward right, and replacing it with another reward they took away from a different part of the game. So if they are replacing a VA ship token at 500 days to make up for the one we will lose for just making VA, then what replaces the 250 Emblems. It can't be the token, that replces the token right?!?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 27
11-15-2011, 10:04 AM
I think it feels most disappointing to those of us who had earned the 400 day reward when they announced they were taking emblems out of the 500 day reward. At the very least, Cryptic should consider giving characters who were part of an active subscription when the emblem removal was announced the equivalent amount of dilithium, just to be fair.

Really though, they should think of some better long-term replacements. The veterans rewards are one of the few reasons to pay for a subscription and they are not a great incentive as they are now.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 28
11-15-2011, 05:41 PM
I completely agree. I think the TR-116 would be a great replacement, combined with other things of course. They sholud keep the VA token for those who have not already gotten it, but give those of us who are being deprived of our emblems something else. C-Points are another good idea (about 800). I say 800 C-points because the new price of a Retrofit is
1600, divided by two (they cost 500 emblems on holo, and the vet reward was 250, or half of 500) =800 C-points.

Anyways i just wanted to let my voice be heard, every vote against this is a step in a better direction.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 29
11-15-2011, 06:06 PM
Whats even more unfair is that Klingons get completely shafted by this, as the F2P changes will cut the number of ships available from the token down from 4 to only 2 ships.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 30
11-16-2011, 11:28 AM
Content was editted by user due to the amount of complianing user has done lately.
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