Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 11
11-14-2011, 06:45 PM
It's good that they are on consoles. First thing when the patch goes live, my "cloak" is coming off my Galaxy-X and going into the bank. I find that ability to be absolutely worthless, and would rather have the extra console slot.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 12
11-14-2011, 06:54 PM
I would like to see these console innate again. To truly bring them in line with +1 ships, the console slot will need to remain, as well. Since you can't use them ship to ship like you can with MVAM, it's completely pointless to make them consoles!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 13
11-14-2011, 07:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zanshi View Post
it's completely pointless to make them consoles!
No, it's not.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 14
11-14-2011, 08:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suavek View Post
Another thread about this? Really?

If anything, converting these abilities into consoles gives players more freedom when equipinig a ship. For example, Defiant's cloak will now be a console, and the ship itself gains an additional engineering slot. You can leave the console there, or put it into science slot, making more use of an additional engineering console.

Or you may just trash the console/ability completely if you don't use it too often and get yourself some other item.

Simple as that. You lose nothing, but get more options. Why is it such a big deal for some people?
Exactly. This is why we did it. Previously, we had to effectively ding these ships a console slot to balance the fact they got a special ability. Making them a console allows us to add the console slot back in, and give the players more options on how they want to configure their ship.

Some abilities didn't make sense to turn into a console. Making the Excelsior Transwarp didn't work out partly because it is a non combat ability. Partly because it wasn't missing a console slot. It was an experiment that didn't work out so we reverted it. Some ships, like the Galaxy Dreadnought had more than one special ability, and it didn't make sense to turn them all into consoles - it would have eaten up too many of the ships slots. Making the dkyr shuttle a console just seemed odd since the shuttle was right there built into the model.

Low tier ship consoles can be moved up, but few T5 consoles can be moved around. This is partly due to balance. Not specifically because it would be dangerously unbalanced to let players use the item on another ship (although this is an issue worth considering - The enhanced battle cloak for the T5 B'rel retrofit could be dangerous in a standard T5 Raider), but more because many of the abilities just wont work on other ships. Saucer separation just doesn't work on any ship other than a galaxy (spoiler alert - we are working on making the saucer sep console work on the dreadnought), the Guramba siege javelin cant work on any other ship, nor can the ablative armor (the ablative armor is built into the intrepid costume, it is not an fx and wont work on any other ship), or the dkyr support vessel. So bottom line, if we cant make most of them work, it would be problematic to make some of them work on other ships. It also allows us to better balance some of these abilities for that specific ship without fear of unintended consequences. Overall, it was just safer and less problematic to lock them to their intended ship.


hope this helps.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 15
11-14-2011, 09:27 PM
I don't care if it's a combat ability or not - I dearly want to be able to make any ship do transwarp. I can always put in that console for travel then switch it out for combat.

The experiment failed because people hated having to get 2 consoles to do the job of one.

I absolutely understand making powers that require graphical support not movable though.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 16
11-14-2011, 09:39 PM
wait saucer sep on a dread im speechless
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 17
11-14-2011, 09:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainGeko
Exactly. This is why we did it. Previously, we had to effectively ding these ships a console slot to balance the fact they got a special ability. Making them a console allows us to add the console slot back in, and give the players more options on how they want to configure their ship.

Some abilities didn't make sense to turn into a console. Making the Excelsior Transwarp didn't work out partly because it is a non combat ability. Partly because it wasn't missing a console slot. It was an experiment that didn't work out so we reverted it. Some ships, like the Galaxy Dreadnought had more than one special ability, and it didn't make sense to turn them all into consoles - it would have eaten up too many of the ships slots. Making the dkyr shuttle a console just seemed odd since the shuttle was right there built into the model.

Low tier ship consoles can be moved up, but few T5 consoles can be moved around. This is partly due to balance. Not specifically because it would be dangerously unbalanced to let players use the item on another ship (although this is an issue worth considering - The enhanced battle cloak for the T5 B'rel retrofit could be dangerous in a standard T5 Raider), but more because many of the abilities just wont work on other ships. Saucer separation just doesn't work on any ship other than a galaxy (spoiler alert - we are working on making the saucer sep console work on the dreadnought), the Guramba siege javelin cant work on any other ship, nor can the ablative armor (the ablative armor is built into the intrepid costume, it is not an fx and wont work on any other ship), or the dkyr support vessel. So bottom line, if we cant make most of them work, it would be problematic to make some of them work on other ships. It also allows us to better balance some of these abilities for that specific ship without fear of unintended consequences. Overall, it was just safer and less problematic to lock them to their intended ship.


hope this helps.
I can understand some balance issues but could it be possible to make most of the consoles work on a variety of ships? Things like the Afterburner and Emmision tracking torpedo would make sense on any ship really.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 18
11-14-2011, 10:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainGeko
Exactly. This is why we did it. Previously, we had to effectively ding these ships a console slot to balance the fact they got a special ability. Making them a console allows us to add the console slot back in, and give the players more options on how they want to configure their ship.

Some abilities didn't make sense to turn into a console. Making the Excelsior Transwarp didn't work out partly because it is a non combat ability. Partly because it wasn't missing a console slot. It was an experiment that didn't work out so we reverted it. Some ships, like the Galaxy Dreadnought had more than one special ability, and it didn't make sense to turn them all into consoles - it would have eaten up too many of the ships slots. Making the dkyr shuttle a console just seemed odd since the shuttle was right there built into the model.

Low tier ship consoles can be moved up, but few T5 consoles can be moved around. This is partly due to balance. Not specifically because it would be dangerously unbalanced to let players use the item on another ship (although this is an issue worth considering - The enhanced battle cloak for the T5 B'rel retrofit could be dangerous in a standard T5 Raider), but more because many of the abilities just wont work on other ships. Saucer separation just doesn't work on any ship other than a galaxy (spoiler alert - we are working on making the saucer sep console work on the dreadnought), the Guramba siege javelin cant work on any other ship, nor can the ablative armor (the ablative armor is built into the intrepid costume, it is not an fx and wont work on any other ship), or the dkyr support vessel. So bottom line, if we cant make most of them work, it would be problematic to make some of them work on other ships. It also allows us to better balance some of these abilities for that specific ship without fear of unintended consequences. Overall, it was just safer and less problematic to lock them to their intended ship.


hope this helps.
I apologize for being rude, but IMO, it doesn't. It makes zero sense to make a console for a feature that you are unable to move to another ship. I think it was a waste, to be honest. If you truly wanted to make good on bringing the T5 retrofits in line with the +1's, you'd keep the abilities innate (no console), and give us the extra console slot. I don't see why a cloak for a Defiant-R is superior to a T5 Raptor and thus needs to be a "false choice" console, which, BTW the Raptor has *9* console slots, and *their* decloak gives the same bonus as a Defiant-R's.

Wanting to maintain balance, my foot!

Again, I apologize for being rude.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 19
11-14-2011, 10:21 PM
Would be nice to give Transwarp to other ships, but definately not as the setup that was on tribble; only one console, with all options (or more, since you've added sectors since it's debut), with some manner of tangible combat benefit. The one on tribble was not worth the opportunity cost to equip.

I could see the Galaxy-X Phaser Lance, with a little coordination and work, becoming a console in the same vein as the Borg Consoles; equip the console, and the phaser lance is equipped somewhere on the ship models.

It would take more work, but configuring more ships to saucer seperate wouldn't be an impossible task. Not all, tho; Defiant, Miranda, Sabers come to mind.

The D'Kyr's power could trigger a different 'pet' model for Starfleet ships; the Galaxy class Captain's Yacht comes to mind.

(also, fix bellerophon's torpedo to work with non-photons)
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 20
11-14-2011, 10:57 PM
Don't you guys have access to the concept art of the Sovereign saucer separation?

I'd much rather see that before the dreadnought, but I guess the sovvie is too old a ship, since apparently it predates the Galaxy in STO.


(I'm going off old dev comments about what ships are allowed to get updates being based on how recently designed in universe they were, despite that usage being hilariously inconsistent. Why yes, I'm trying to make a point.)



Now, while some consoles obviously wouldn't work on any given ship for the reasons you've stated, there are some that by all means should- normal cloak, for example. Not the battle cloak, not the enhanced battle cloak or w/e the klinks get, but the normal cloak. Since most Klink ships cloak my default with some exceptions, I would love to see the klinks get some sort of purchaseable 'normal cloak' console for the ships that don't cloak by default.

I'd also like to see the defiant/dreadnought cloak be slottable on other fed ships.

At this point there's no acceptable ingame logic for cloaks to be restricted on the feddie side, and while I totally agree that it's not worth the effort to make the rest of those abilities available on other ships at the moment, cloaking I think would be an exception.


It's one of those cool things that's always been around in trek, and there's a lot of precedent for it happening in universe. With cloaks becoming consoles+console slots, you're already sort of unbalancing the existing PvP meta, so I don't see any reason to prevent the other ship types from cloaking if they want to, and cloak very rarely matters for PvE with the exception of like... Kerrat, and aren't you nuking that anyway?
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 09:07 AM.