Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 1 It's All In Your Head.
11-16-2011, 01:18 PM
The KDF advantage is a self perpetuating brain fart. A person comes along poorly prepared, gets stomped, tries to protect their ego, and ultimately decides to play the part of the victim rather than take steps to learn from their failings. Cloaking strikes are easily overcome with a little bit of situational awareness. Multiple enemies attacking can be thwarted even more easily by multiple allies working together.

Everyone knows that the Fed population is larger than the Klink population (with some obvious over lapping since some folks who love PvP will play both sides). By mere chance alone you are more likely to run into a Fed PuG full of players who don't have proper builds, don't support one another, are just emblem farming, think that tanking is their contribution to their team, or took a wrong turn at the Milky way.

"But I play as a Fed and I play as a Klink and whenever I play a Klink I have a much easier time!" So do I (for the most part)! That's not proof of anything. It's anecdotal and in no way controls for the enormous set of variables. Hell, I can fly Fed side and stomp the hell out of a Klink team only to reenter the queues and be completely decimated. Does the first match mean that Feds are over powered? Does the second mean that Klinks are?

Of course, I realize that even now with the erosion of true PvP raised Klinks, Klinks in general are better at what they do than their typical Fed counter part. As a Fed I'm surrounded by zombie cruisers, z-axis tanking beamscorts, and my personal favorite, DPS cruisers. Not to go too far off on a tangent in the middle of another tangent but, considering the power of healing, burst damage is the only real damage and the only real shot at taking out a team that knows how to support one another. That being said, a DoT cruiser tickling away at resist hardened enemies while the best bet at burst is busy respawning might look really good with 6 or 7 digit damage totals, but that big goose egg in the win column at the end suggests otherwise. As a Klink I'm not immune to those teams (especially not anymore) yet I am far more likely to receive some kind of support. But I digress.

More to the point here (if there is any discernible point to be made in all of this), the Klink advantage is psychological. Folks flying Klink seem to understand that they need to bring some damage to win (again, not just damage, real damage). Feds think they can win by outlasting their opponents. The truth is that you need a balance of both. You can have a ship tailored entirely for one purpose if another ship is tailored to covered your weak areas but this means you have to work together. Maybe it is cloaks fault. Klinks think they can kill everything so they go damage heavy, Feds are afraid that they need to survive the alpha so they go heal heavy. In the end, superior damage will beat even the current level of over power healing if its a team of self healers (i.e. no shared support). Maybe if the Feds would just realize that they can support each other they'd be able to turn the cloaking advantage around. Unfortunately, and here comes yet another tangent within a tangent, the folks who know this mostly gave up on PuGing a long time ago. Who could blame them? It's probably due to the frustration of seeing so many people fail to grasp such basic concepts. Maybe we should think about others while we play this MMO? I don't know.

People don't play FvK as much because they don't like to lose. People lose because they don't make the effort to learn. People don't make the effort because this game rewards people for just showing up (seriously, you don't even have to do anything but make sure you don't idle out every 15 minutes). People who just show up don't think about their role on a team because they don't have to. It doesn't matter. But none of this really matters. You can't base true PvP balance discussions on PuG experiences.

I think I need a drink. Or a nap. Or to drink less and a nap.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 2
11-16-2011, 01:57 PM
/target hale.

His common sense and ability to communicate it effectively are ruining my immersion.

*rolls face across keyboard* that's right, gimmie muh emblims.

Deuces.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 3
11-16-2011, 02:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveHale View Post
The KDF advantage is a self perpetuating brain fart. A person comes along poorly prepared, gets stomped, tries to protect their ego, and ultimately decides to play the part of the victim rather than take steps to learn from their failings. Cloaking strikes are easily overcome with a little bit of situational awareness. Multiple enemies attacking can be thwarted even more easily by multiple allies working together.

Everyone knows that the Fed population is larger than the Klink population (with some obvious over lapping since some folks who love PvP will play both sides). By mere chance alone you are more likely to run into a Fed PuG full of players who don't have proper builds, don't support one another, are just emblem farming, think that tanking is their contribution to their team, or took a wrong turn at the Milky way.

"But I play as a Fed and I play as a Klink and whenever I play a Klink I have a much easier time!" So do I (for the most part)! That's not proof of anything. It's anecdotal and in no way controls for the enormous set of variables. Hell, I can fly Fed side and stomp the hell out of a Klink team only to reenter the queues and be completely decimated. Does the first match mean that Feds are over powered? Does the second mean that Klinks are?

Of course, I realize that even now with the erosion of true PvP raised Klinks, Klinks in general are better at what they do than their typical Fed counter part. As a Fed I'm surrounded by zombie cruisers, z-axis tanking beamscorts, and my personal favorite, DPS cruisers. Not to go too far off on a tangent in the middle of another tangent but, considering the power of healing, burst damage is the only real damage and the only real shot at taking out a team that knows how to support one another. That being said, a DoT cruiser tickling away at resist hardened enemies while the best bet at burst is busy respawning might look really good with 6 or 7 digit damage totals, but that big goose egg in the win column at the end suggests otherwise. As a Klink I'm not immune to those teams (especially not anymore) yet I am far more likely to receive some kind of support. But I digress.

More to the point here (if there is any discernible point to be made in all of this), the Klink advantage is psychological. Folks flying Klink seem to understand that they need to bring some damage to win (again, not just damage, real damage). Feds think they can win by outlasting their opponents. The truth is that you need a balance of both. You can have a ship tailored entirely for one purpose if another ship is tailored to covered your weak areas but this means you have to work together. Maybe it is cloaks fault. Klinks think they can kill everything so they go damage heavy, Feds are afraid that they need to survive the alpha so they go heal heavy. In the end, superior damage will beat even the current level of over power healing if its a team of self healers (i.e. no shared support). Maybe if the Feds would just realize that they can support each other they'd be able to turn the cloaking advantage around. Unfortunately, and here comes yet another tangent within a tangent, the folks who know this mostly gave up on PuGing a long time ago. Who could blame them? It's probably due to the frustration of seeing so many people fail to grasp such basic concepts. Maybe we should think about others while we play this MMO? I don't know.

People don't play FvK as much because they don't like to lose. People lose because they don't make the effort to learn. People don't make the effort because this game rewards people for just showing up (seriously, you don't even have to do anything but make sure you don't idle out every 15 minutes). People who just show up don't think about their role on a team because they don't have to. It doesn't matter. But none of this really matters. You can't base true PvP balance discussions on PuG experiences.

I think I need a drink. Or a nap. Or to drink less and a nap.
It was a well written post but it eventually comes down to this....
Klingons attack like a pack of dogs which is entirely consistent with Star Trek.
Federation captains tend to think individually and use individual tactics again entirely consistent with Star Trek and you're right, it doesn't work; which is why PvP in STO is generally considered fail by the vast majority of STO players.
You can complain about PVErs and the tactics they use in PvP but you're gonna come up against it time and again.
Any aspect of a Star Trek game that doesn't feel like Star Trek is epic fail.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 4
11-16-2011, 03:36 PM
This is the reason why I play KDF All of the answers is in Hale's post
However it's true, I only have one fed player, but I'm no weaker or stronger than with my other three kdf players. Just a game, no need for lost egos, and nothing bad happens when you die, so it's cool, just have fun and if you want to get better at it, just play some more
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 5
11-16-2011, 04:00 PM
Quit trying to confuse us with logic and common sense. We've all had our butts kicked by Klingons at one time or another which PROVES they're OP and need to be nerfed. Actually, if they would give the Feds a rsp console so I could have a third rsp, I suppose that would work too...
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 6
11-16-2011, 04:01 PM
Nonsense. Of course We're OP.
We have Capes, like superheros.
/target Hale
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 7
11-16-2011, 04:13 PM
rsp console...meh. i want a miracle worker console for my sci ship.

ooooh oooh, and while we're at it maybe a subnuke for my cruiser. which,,,it prolly should already have.

alsotherunninglightsonmyintrepidarestillwrongandth esoverignclassneckisalljackedupklinksareoppeaceimo ut
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 8
11-16-2011, 05:33 PM
With broken skills and overpowered healing + cheating its not hard to be "good" in this game. Plenty of cook book recipe forum builds out there. PvP is a disaster in its current state and no one should be bragging or complaining about winning or losing.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 9
11-16-2011, 08:39 PM
As true as this is, I don't think it will sway anyone to queue up for FVK PVP more.

I logged into one of my KDF LTGs today and queued up for PVP and flew off to Azleza. I managed to get 3 explores done, flew back to Qo'nos and made a new uniform, then went back out to Azleza for 3 more explores, and only got into a single PVP match in the hour and a half I was on Holodeck, despite being in the queue almost the whole time.

On the plus side I got to kill Hale a few times.

At this point I hope F2P will bring in all kinds of fresh blood to the PVP queues and breathe new life into it, hopefully with people who want to learn. But the playerbase is suffering right now from Tribble, a severe content drought, and I think a lot of fear and uncertainty about what F2P will bring. I think these issues are far more relevant to weak PVP queues than people who think Klinks are OP (and the irony is I'm sure many of them fly cloaking Defiants).
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 10
11-16-2011, 08:57 PM
Eh, I think the huge variety of choices on the Klingon side is it's undoing. It tempts people, even premades, to create these odd builds that don't fit it at all, and the result is 0 cohesion on a team. There's a bit less of that on Fed, but in general puggers on both sides are pretty terrible.
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 08:47 AM.