Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 21
11-17-2011, 04:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike2099
It was a well written post but it eventually comes down to this....
Klingons attack like a pack of dogs which is entirely consistent with Star Trek.
Federation captains tend to think individually and use individual tactics again entirely consistent with Star Trek and you're right, it doesn't work; which is why PvP in STO is generally considered fail by the vast majority of STO players.
You can complain about PVErs and the tactics they use in PvP but you're gonna come up against it time and again.
Any aspect of a Star Trek game that doesn't feel like Star Trek is epic fail.
I'm confused.
STO PvP fails becuase the game can't emulate the Star Trek feel of Individual Heroism for the Feds in a real time setting played by thinking fed players and against thinking KDF opponents?

FvK PvP in STO (imo) is where the fantasy of the TV and Movies breaks down.
In FvK PvP a Player of The KDF finally is not restricted by Plot devices.
We can win or lose battles by our own efforts.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 22
11-17-2011, 05:26 AM
A fed has only one hope to survive a vicious alpha strike launched by a group of bops deckloaking around, a coordinated support of his teammates! That's the point in question, the feds are always on the defensive, first we tank then finally we can move in to attack, we haven't seriously any choice against invisible and fast enemies or enormous ships spamming fighters like crazy. This tedious strategy and the awareness to fly a low grade ships cause the progressive pvp abandon, a chain of frustration and recrimination, an increase of sci lamer captains. So...maybe the feds are not mostly able to organize a serious premade, maybe they don't understand the right tactics, maybe they wanna be a pve super hero and so reject the pvp queues...or...maybe...the klis have better ships. And that's the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth! You know it, now admit it!:p
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 23
11-17-2011, 05:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Starwrath
A fed has only one hope to survive a vicious alpha strike launched by a group of bops deckloaking around, a coordinated support of his teammates! That's the point in question, the feds are always on the defensive, first we tank then finally we can move in to attack, we haven't seriously any choice against invisible and fast enemies or enormous ships spamming fighters like crazy. This tedious strategy and the awareness to fly a low grade ships cause the progressive pvp abandon, a chain of frustration and recrimination, an increase of sci lamer captains. So...maybe the feds are not mostly able to organize a serious premade, maybe they don't understand the right tactics, maybe they wanna be a pve super hero and so reject the pvp queues...or...maybe...the klis have better ships. And that's the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth! You know it, now admit it!:p
The Feds are on the defensive, which sounds very ... "canon".

And healing and resistances are so strong that you can actually survive and strike back. So there is balance.

The thing that are not canon are the yo-yo-healing, I suppose. Can't do anything about that.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 24
11-17-2011, 06:02 AM
Teamwork is Hax!

This is why I play my Klingon more often when I'm pugging, I've found some horrible Klink pugs but more often than not their pretty good.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 25
11-17-2011, 06:02 AM
Eh, it's not so simple! While the klis attacks are always very well coordinated because they're planned before, the feds can't know where and when they will be striked out. Also, you certainly must know, attack is the best form of defence.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 26
11-17-2011, 06:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roach View Post
I'm confused.
STO PvP fails becuase the game can't emulate the Star Trek feel of Individual Heroism for the Feds in a real time setting played by thinking fed players and against thinking KDF opponents?

FvK PvP in STO (imo) is where the fantasy of the TV and Movies breaks down.
In FvK PvP a Player of The KDF finally is not restricted by Plot devices.
We can win or lose battles by our own efforts.
You're right.
You can't however change the fact that it is what it is.
Missions are scripted and follow the Star Trek formula so they are popular.
There are instances in Star Trek where Federation ships teamed up to fight the enemy but in the end it all came down to the heroics of one captain and his/her crew. Picard swoops in to take command of the fleet and tells them to "Fire on this location" and so on.
Like it or not Star Trek is about one ship and one captain. They tried the space station in DS9 and eventually had to give Sisko the Defiant.
I think PvP could become popular but they'd have to get rid of the magic non Star Trek powers and go back to Star Trek basics.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 27
11-17-2011, 06:19 AM
Alkem, you admit it! When pugging you are alone opposite to the unknown and you prefer playing your klingon because you feel sure flying a better ship!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 28
11-17-2011, 07:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Starwrath
Alkem, you admit it! When pugging you are alone opposite to the unknown and you prefer playing your klingon because you feel sure flying a better ship!
do you have a leveled klingon toon? If so, what does he fly and can you honestly say that it has an advantage over its fed counterpart?

I can tell you now that while I enjoy playing my klingon more than my feds, all 3 of my fed toons are stronger than any klingon ship I have ever flown. The only 2 ships on the klingon side I havent flown are the gurumba and the var'****. Just because its more fun to fly our klinks doesnt mean its because we have a overwhelming ship advantage. Its just more fun

The biggest thing that irritates me about this argument are feds that have NEVER leveled a klingon toon and actively pvp'd with him chiming in with their opinion when they dont have any experience playing both sides. How can you really argue with the overwhelming amount of players that pvp BOTH sides, when their opinions all seem to say the same thing? Plain and simple, Fed ships have an advantage. I can understand their frustration when they face superior tactics of a klingon team, but what they fail to understand is that klingon team in fed ships would tear them apart even quicker.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 29
11-17-2011, 07:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Starwrath
Eh, it's not so simple! While the klis attacks are always very well coordinated because they're planned before, the feds can't know where and when they will be striked out. Also, you certainly must know, attack is the best form of defence.
You can start coordinating the defense from the start. Healers can identify themselves as such and can state the targets they want to heal or the sequence in which they heal (to avoid overhealing). DPS/Burst guys can identify themselves and decide a general kill-order, and Science Vessel Captains can state their poison strategy. A target caller can be elected. All this can be done while the KDF is moving towards your group (with your team ideally already moving away from the spawn point as well). A KDF PuG team will probably have to do all this, and then it has to identify its enemies and pick its targets. Sure, cloak allows them to do this - but they actually need more time for this than your group.

And that's only when you PuG. If you fly with friends in a known configuration (premades or a random PuG with players you know), you can omit that coordination step.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 30
11-17-2011, 07:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike2099
I think PvP could become popular but they'd have to get rid of the magic non Star Trek powers and go back to Star Trek basics.
ah, so 20 mins tech babble and then epic win? or 20 mins talking until one side withdraws? no thanks. if i would like to do that, i would join some roleplayers on drozana station.
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