Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 21
11-18-2011, 03:20 PM
Tbo, any balance changes should be done w/what's going on the tribble server (which is a lot w/doffs, ptw c-store ships, consoles, skill tree etc). But, I don't see very much pvp testing just a little here and there in kerrat.

With the variety they're putting into intra ship career types it's not as simple as the basic tac, sci, engineer anymore. Tbo, I don't think it has been for awhile now.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 22
11-19-2011, 08:29 AM
Yeah, balance is gone. We need real roles to fill, not just Burst DPS wins, or max DPS gets first place, etc. Built into the maps and scenarios should be specific needs that are best met by various ships/builds. Take some emphasis away from balance and put it on strategy. Even an underpowered pawn can win a chess match. [example] Snipers are always woefully underpowered on a battlefield, but if you build into the maps sniper nests and ways to make use of their strengths (headshots) people will still want to use them, and one deadly shot at a time becomes an asset.

I think we need real strategic and well made maps and objectives for PvP, not arenas. Maps that force teams to split up at times and defend multiple spots, attack bases while defending your own, capture resources, something other than circling an empty spot in space.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 23
11-19-2011, 08:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MustrumRidcully View Post
I don't think the "naked" Science Vessel is overpowered.

The ability to slot science powers is that makes it strong. The Intrepids Ablative Armor could be more powerful on a Cruiser, but it is definitely powerful in its own right.

The strength of science powers (be it BO or Captain) seems also directly correlated to the strength of all other powers. If there weren't so strong resistance and attack buffs, Subnucleonic Beam would be less relevant. If healing was weaker, so would be Scramble Sensors. Charged Particle Burst's effectiveness is dependent on the prevalance of shield resistances.
This is evident if you compare science strengths in PvP vs PvE. In PvP, powers fly around everywhere, no one (that counts ) is without resistance or damge buffs. Science rules. In PvE, powers are mostly used by players, not the NPCs, and consequently the science powers are not very impressive. A Charged Particle Burst doesn't really compensate for 2 more BA or a couple of DHCs.

But I am not telling anything new here.

Well there is a difference between strong (or when contrasting to PVE, actually useful), and OP. I mean again, when someone says sci ships are OP, they are either moaning about the intrepid armor, SNB, or some other specific issue. None of those have anything to do with science ships in general, which is why I'm trying to understand where the issue actually lies.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 24
11-19-2011, 07:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foxrocks
Well there is a difference between strong (or when contrasting to PVE, actually useful), and OP. I mean again, when someone says sci ships are OP, they are either moaning about the intrepid armor, SNB, or some other specific issue. None of those have anything to do with science ships in general, which is why I'm trying to understand where the issue actually lies.
If I were to hazard a guess, it'd be that Sci abilities in general are a bit OP and that Sci ships are OP in the sense that they can wield a large number of them. 3+ CPB 3s = one dead team. 3+ Gravity Well 3s = 1 dead team. 3+ Tyken's 3s = 1 dead team. Etc, etc.

You don't get those numbers elsewhere; it's possible for multiple Scis to overcome both the DPS/burst of multiple Escorts or Cruisers and still kill them; multiples of the other classes can't say the same (all things considered equal).
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 25
11-20-2011, 03:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mvs5191 View Post
If I were to hazard a guess, it'd be that Sci abilities in general are a bit OP and that Sci ships are OP in the sense that they can wield a large number of them. 3+ CPB 3s = one dead team. 3+ Gravity Well 3s = 1 dead team. 3+ Tyken's 3s = 1 dead team. Etc, etc.

You don't get those numbers elsewhere; it's possible for multiple Scis to overcome both the DPS/burst of multiple Escorts or Cruisers and still kill them; multiples of the other classes can't say the same (all things considered equal).

So then the issue there isn't science ships at all, its the way the AOEs stack with each other. That I can see to a degree. Seems like maybe GW, CPB, and Tykens could get similar treatment that PSW got.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 26
11-20-2011, 04:02 PM
It would have been nice to see some kind of diminishing returns maybe. I'm still not a fan of full resists though.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 27
11-20-2011, 08:48 PM
Well I thought about this a little, and I have a few ideas.

CPB when used gives a short say 10s buff "Ionized shields" which can stack with itself. Each stack reduces shield damage from further CPBs by a multiplicative 50%? So first would do 4K, second does 2K, third 1K, etc.


Gravity well I think should create a big explosion if multiple GWs are in each other's radius. This would kill the GWs and throw all the ships in the radius outward with some significant damage and a short stun. Basically a bigger PSW, and it would also of course give the stun immunity buff too that PSW has. I think it should possibly also affect friendlies, at least the stun and repel components.

Unfortunately I don't see a way for GW to coexist with itself in any capacity, because of the way the repels interact.


Tykens, well it simply shouldn't stack the drain with itself, the way multiple target subsystems don't stack. The damage should though.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 28
11-21-2011, 02:49 PM
its funny how cryptic is trying to blur the lines between the ships. All the special consoles give ships things they wouldn't normally carry, AMS=SS, Gravitron Pulse = GW/TR, RI Console = MES/JS, KDF Lightning = ???, I am sure I am missing something
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 29
11-21-2011, 03:58 PM
So the ship class that is neither most qualified for damage throughput or mitigation, and has had most (if not all) of its CC abilities heavily nerfed since closed beta is "OP"? Why? Because of inherent tier 1 subsystem targeting?

Seriously?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 30
11-21-2011, 04:21 PM
Cryptic fan? Srsly?
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